Faith. Doubt. Individuality. Humanity.

Thank you, Lee. QT

Lee, I just ready that on HuffPo also. I found it very revealing. Personally, I am not a believer in anything supernatural. In short, I am atheist.I find “extreme” religion completely and utterly irrational and a bad way to go through the decision-making process.But in Obama’s case, I see him carrying on an inner dialog between himself and his God. It’s personal, it’s internal, it thoughtful, and it’s non-binding. Definitely a rational thought-process. Even though I am not a believer, I don’t see Obama’s personal faith as a tool, as divisive, or as exclusive.I feel included.

JM,Yep, I agree completely. I think it’s really like that for a lot of people, more than we know from the outside. Faith is a struggle because thought is a struggle and as we grow older the world doesn’t match our notions of it.

“Faith is a struggle because thought is a struggle and as we grow older the world doesn’t match our notions of it.”Oh, man. That is so insightful. I was raised Christian, but the older I got, the less I fit in where “faith” was concerned. I couldn’t even force myself to believe. But whether we believe or not, we still have to work hard together to improve our country.

The one caveat I would offer is that a large number of religious people, despite their individual interpretations of whatever doctrine they ascribe to, are still all too willing to go with the flow when major issues rub up against their church.There are members of my extended family, for instance, who are not openly hostile toward the gay community, but do not hesitate to back their church’s anti-gay stance when they are called upon to do so.It would be a much healthier country, I think, if everyone just went with their own views 100% of the time, but we all still have that nasty habit of wanting to be accepted by a larger community even if it requires compromise that could harm people outside that community.

QT: I was just thinking “man I’m glad QT hung on another day” and there you are. (I think I already did this with Kat on a very different subject. You guys are way ahead of me today).

this is a point which needed to be made so thank you.i am a christian and i live and act on my faith each day as best as i possibly can.i never,ever feel superior to or smarter than anyone because of my faith.and i cant tell you how infuriating it is to see so many angry,hateful,fraudulent con artists hijack my faith and sell it(quite literally) and present it as a tool for their homophobic,racist,narrowminded agendas which have nothing to do with what the vast majority of christians believe.because of these hagees and dobsons and the gay dude from colorado who got caught with a male prostitute doing meth while simultaneously preaching rabid homophobia in his giant church which was payed for by all the people who bought into the hate and homophobia he was selling,people have developed a negative image of faith in general and christianity in particular.anyway,its just one more reason im anxiously awaiting President Obama.

TimEldred, I think the issue is that too many religions tell their followers they will be condemned if they don’t toe the line. It’s a blatant threat and fear of reprisal. Fear. People do think on their own and they do make their own decisions, but if they are threatened, they will fall back in line.I think this is why the GOP works so well.

TImEldred: The problem with the “go with the flow” idea is that it’s kind of a zero sum game. I remember on the FISA debate, Obama said, “It’s not that I am not hearing you – it’s that I don’t agree.” People felt that this meant something other than what he actually said – but you know – reasonable people can come to different decisions about just about everything.The point of dialogue is to respect the rational human being on the other side of the discussion, and to expect that they respect you in return. We may never agree on some things, but we may reach a place of understanding – and that’s valuable, because it lets us find new solutions.The reasons I advocate strongly for a religious coalition to be called together are these:1. Religious people can make the religious argument. – As heartfelt as KO’s special comment was, it missed the point religiously. But a religious person can make the case.2. Obama has already begun to build a religious coalition – one that can be called upon and built up to give a wider range of political voice to the religiously-inclined. This is necessary for the welfare of religion, and for the welfare of politics. No one political side should dominate the religious sphere.3. It makes it possible to view religion as potential friend, instead of perennial enemy.QT

DP: Yes, thank you. You, Kat and LFOD08 were very kind in the other thread. QT

Just one more thing about him that makes me cry. Please tell me we’re not dreaming.

pinches Ann, and self.OUCH! Nope. Not dreaming! QT