The Difference Between Warren and Wright

I think Mr. Stranahan mis-characterizes the comparison.Jeremiah Wright preaches things that are controversial to one group of people — Warren does the same. Their congregants and others like them don’t see tham as controversial at all.I’ve read Mr. Stranahan’s arguments, and I understand them to an extent. If this were another moderate-to-conservative pastor, fine.However, I don’t believe it would be THAT difficult to find a pastor who is moderate to conservative who isn’t on record as denigrating a segment of the population.As a current seminarian, I have an understanding of the nuanced differences between varying theologies — Rick Warren is neither nuanced, nor a theologian. He a preacher, like Billy Graham, and should be understood in the same way.I can’t begin to understand the feelings that my gay brothers and sisters have about this, but I stand in solidarity with them in opposition to Rick Warren.I hope Pesident-Elect Obama makes a change. This get’s him nothing politically from the right and center. Symbols matter, and if the President-Elect makes a symbolic statment which says, “These sorts of ideas are troubling, and antithetical to the ideals of America, where all should be considered equal”, then I would be happy.Mr. Cesca is right when he quotes John Adams — the middle way is no way t all.

Let me begin by saying that I agree with Lee’s point in the post; Obama actually did stand by Wright for longer than was politically expedient for him to do and it was only when Wright signaled that he intended to be a continuing agitator and issue statements concerning Obama that he had to sever ties officially.But to the point that willpen is seemingly making: “We have no one to blame but ourselves” seems to take the notion of Warren’s inclusion as an inevitability and demands that anyone hurt or offended by such must simply take it as an immutable and unavoidable given of the Universe.It is the essence of victim-blaming.Maddow is rightly speaking truth to power. The fact that that power is a more agreeable kind than has existed in the last 8 years does not mean that one must stop the act.I have a larger sort of summation of this whole “debate with/inclusion of” evangelicals that has to do with the Game Theory exercise of the iterated Prisoner’s Dilemma, but it is a little long in the explaining.In essence, it boils down to this. Cooperation as a survival strategy WORKS (and works with predictably increasing benefit) more often than not, but not in instances with partners who, as a rule, betray their end of the cooperation.In computer programs simulating iterated Prisoner Dilemma strategies, “Nice” (tend to cooperate) ones did tend to gain more than “Not Nice” (tend to betray). However, “Pushover” strategies were quickly wiped out. (Cooperate, even after being betrayed, iteratively.)I think what occurs too often in the progressive community is mistaking the tendency for cooperation as beneficial to be taken as meaning that cooperation, in any and all instances, is always preferable. It conflates the moral decency of cooperation with its effectiveness as a strategy.Cooperation DOES work (mathematically), but only when it is reciprocated. Forgiveness is also a key component in these iterative games, to “reset” the playing field after a betrayal, so that the cooperation strategy is allowed to flourish, and not degenerate into an endless tit-for-tat loop.But constant forgiveness in the face of aggression is not a sound survival strategy. Whether or not you view it as moral (or Christ-like) is up to your sense of purpose, but I would hasten to point out, look where it got Christ.This all makes more sense if you get familiar with the “game” of Prisoner’s Dilemma, and read a little on the iterated versions of it.There are online simulations to test strategies, if you look for them. It is, I find, very pragmatic to think of interaction in these terms, moreso than looking for guidance by way of what is right or wrong.If I thought Obama was being awesomely pragmatic and playing great chess, I’d be all for the move. But it is a sucker’s move, this Warren thing.

I’d guess that it will be something written for the occasion, asking for God’s blessings on the country & its president. I can’t imagine that he’d be reading from the Bible, but ya never know.Hopefully it will be short and nonconfrontational.

Your post title fails to deliver. What’s the difference? Beside the fact that Rev. Wright’s branch of the church didn’t split off because they were AGAINST the civil rights movement.