The Reverse Wright

by Lee Stranahan

Something QT said in comments really sparked this revelation for me – all that’s going on here a reverse of the Reverend Wright faux-controversy, except this time it’s those on the left doing the crazy attacks instead of the right. To whit….

1) We get the same soundbites repeated over and over and over, as if hearing ‘God DAMN America!’ or “5000 years of traditional’ ten more times will suddenly make everyone not freaked out finally get it and join the freak out.

2) Total context dropping about the importance of the person to Obama and what he’s going to do as President. With Wright it was ‘Obama sat in Rev. Wright’s pew for YEARS!’, with Warren it’s “Look, this is a HUGELY IMPORTANT three minute prayer!”

3) The supposed ripping of the mask off the REAL Obama – “See! This PROVES he hates America / gays and lesbians! I knew it the whole time!”


4) Wright / Warren preach the politics of HATE! (Don’t believe it? Quick, roll that soundbite again.) Hate, I say!!! They are so hateful that if you don’t hate them, then you’re a hater too and we hate haters so we hate!5) Oh, NOES! Look what else the Rev. said! Never mind whether it’s nothing that every one else with the same beliefs says. It’s another soundbite and it clearly proves a pattern!6) Look, idiot. This is so obvious that this Reverend is a nutcase. Did you not see the quotes we’ve been playing?!? Jump on our nutcase hating bandwagon quick or you fail the litmus test. Oh, you’re a cultist! I suppose if Obama went to Hitler’s church for twenty years or had Hitler read a short prayer at his inauguration, you’d want to french kiss Obama for that.7) Been going over these quotes. Still don’t see other way to read them. They clearly prove Obama is unfit to lead. How can he associate with this guy?8) No, I didn’t really want to hear how Obama could associate with him – don’t mention anything positive about the Reverend or I’ll go all quotey on you again.9) Did I mention Hitler?

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  • sdrDusty

    Lee, I wholly agree with you on your earlier point that we can and should learn from this, and in fact use it to some advantage.But characterizing the protests of this decision as crazed and irrational is just plain bullshit. Yes, there’s some hyperbole, but it does not eliminate the basic rational that I and many are stating.

  • http://www.leestranahan.com Lee Stranahan

    It’s rational in exactly the same way the Rev. Wright attacks were rational. Rev. Wright DID say those things.But they are irrational in the same way, too.

  • Alan4s

    >> …but it does not eliminate the basic rational that I and many are stating….and stating over, and over, and over again without anyone changing thier minds.We get it. Just. Please. STOP!

  • Maurice

    Thanks for this Post Lee…

  • http://www.leestranahan.com Lee Stranahan

    Alan – there’s an OCD factor, I think…

  • jm

    Lee, I’ve been reading your comments and the replies for days now. Ican sum it all up for you. It’s easy for you to tell us that we should just wipe the spit off our faces and then grin and bear it. Your not the one thats been spat on

  • Mo

    Lee, Lee, Lee, please stop this. Your “30 Days, 30 Reasons” videos were great. I want to keep liking you. I really do, but you’re not making it easy, y’know? Where this analogy falls apart is that, unlike Rev. Wright, Rev. Warren has been well-known to LGBT folks and our allies for quite a while. It’s not a matter of quotes taken out of context or a failure to understand a broader theology. I’ve been excited about the possibility of an Obama presidency since 2002, and I continue to be. And maybe giving Warren more fame and legitimacy will turn out to be a brilliant move in ways I can’t conceive of, but it feels like a big fat mistake, and one that I find hurtful on a variety of levels, but primarily as a lesbian. There was an essay that went around certain circles of the interwebs maybe seven or eight years ago entitled, “Note to the men in the [feminist] movement: Shut the Fuck Up.” It was a very good essay. The thrust of it was that people who have more privilege and consider themselves allies often need to learn to listen and otherwise learn about the people they feel allied with before (or instead of) giving directions about tactics, strategy, or what the meaning of other actions may be to the less privileged folks they consider themselves allies of. Try starting from the position that you don’t know what it’s like to be queer, that for many of us a position of “I support you, but I don’t understand why you take issue with my homophobic [insert name of religious leader, co-worker, family member] when I think they’re so nifty and, besides now you, queer person, are hate-mongering because you don’t want to share X, Y, Z with them” is a position that we’ve long grown weary of. Your post Prop 8 essays and posts here seem, well, uninformed. I’d hoped that after your first “This is what you gay people need to do” essay, you’d take a deep breath and reconsider why the reaction wasn’t entirely positive, but it seems like every day you become more convinced that anyone who disagrees with you is just wrong. Please stop.

  • josh

    Who anywhere is saying #3? That’s a silly strawman.And also, what happened with Wright made sense because if politicians really had to stand behind what any given preacher/rabbi/imam says, they’d be rightly castigated for being insane.Also, Obama specifically distanced himself from Wright, beginning at his exploratory commission. His handlers rightly saw the conflagration on the horizon, given the document of Wright’s sermons and the efforts that oppo would take to link Obama to them.As a counter, Obama/Team Obama has gone out of their way to tap Warren as a named ally/friend, when NOT doing so would have not brought any questions of his absence.This little “war” going on, in essence, is like Iraq, in that it was one of choice.NOT tapping Warren would have caused no waves from either the evangelical crowd or the progressive crowd.This move is a lose-lose, since it sways no evangelicals (really, it doesn’t) and angers/distances some of his most ardent supporters at a time when his actual leadership is at a nascent stage.This is one of those instances where this isn’t a middle. That’s the nature of fundamentalists.See Michele Goldberg’s excellent summation. She puts it all into really concise, elegant terms.with which differences can be bridged;

  • http://unrelatedcontent.com Travis D

    >>We get it. Just. Please. STOP!I believe this is the political discussion equivalent of taking one’s ball and going home.

  • sdrDusty

    Lee, there’s help for OCD: you elected to reopen the discussion this morning, I have merely responded.

  • Lyle

    Wright = garbage can.Warren = pedestal.Seems like a difference to me.

  • http://www.leestranahan.com Lee Stranahan

    Mo,I’ve heard from a number of gay men and women that think the approach I’m suggesting bears consideration and who appreciated it. Sorry you aren’t one of them but I’m going to keep speaking the truth as I see it.And I didn’t say any of things you’re saying I’m saying. I never said you need to agree with or like Rick Warren. I don’t agree with him, I’m just looking at it how to handle him differently.Josh – LOTS of people are saying #3…’Obama is my oppressor’ is a quote that springs to mind.

  • gypsysoul

    i have been in holiday shopping hell or drunken bliss for the last couple of days so i am not as informed on the warren-gate as i should be; but i just have to ask lee and those not bothered/curious over obama’s choice of warren “what if you were the person he was passing judgement on?” lee i read how pissed you became when travis mentioned your child on another thread. i feel there is a huge double standard going on with you. it is ok for you to get angered at someone mentioning your parenting skills but others should rise above the “hate” and just chalk warrens “beliefs” up to agree to disagree?! i don’t get it.what if you were the gay man being compared to someone marrying an animal? what if you were the woman who had gotten pregnant by rape? would you still feel that ignoring warrens beliefs is the best way to handle the situation? i see the fight in you and i am sure you would have a different view if you were directly being affected.btw…is QT jesus incarnate?

  • http://unrelatedcontent.com Travis D

    >>I don’t agree with him, I’m just looking at it how to handle him differently.Are you sure? Because you’re devoting a whole lot of time to trying to convince people to just suck it up (so to speak). Seems like your views on homosexuality aren’t as progressive as people may assume based on your (professed) political leanings.

  • josh

    what if you were the gay man being compared to someone marrying an animal? what if you were the woman who had gotten pregnant by rape? would you still feel that ignoring warrens beliefs is the best way to handle the situation? i see the fight in you and i am sure you would have a different view if you were directly being affected.

    This is a good point. At the slightest provocation of making it personal, Lee, you did seem to be willing to challenge Travis D. to a UFC cage match and were almost using mid-80s Hulk Hogan wrestling talk in calling him out.

  • http://www.leestranahan.com Lee Stranahan

    I AM the person he’s passing judgment on. And I’m not joking…I haven’t accepted Jesus as my personal savior. I’m going to hell according to Rick Warren. So is my wife and my kids.I’ve lived with two woman at once – polyamory! According to Warren, this is as bad as incest.I’ve been divorced.I’ve committed adultery by Warren’s definition. Warren considers adultery much more of a threat to marriage than same-sex marriageI’ve lived with women without being married. Warren compared this to pedophilia! I would not be allowed to join Saddleback.I’m a pornographer. An award winning, published one.I could go on and on about my deviancy – but these are all true and all things Warren has railed against, even more thanAnd still – his short prayer blessing our new President won’t be setting any policy that effects me or anyone else on the planet. It’s nothing I’m worried about – even though Rick Warren attacks me, my lifestyle and my beliefs.

  • http://unrelatedcontent.com Travis D

    >>Lee, you did seem to be willing to challenge Travis D. to a UFC cage match and were almost using mid-80s Hulk Hogan wrestling talk in calling him out.In fairness it was more like a bad Scott Steiner impersonation.

  • Lyle

    I don’t know why it matters if the left goes “crazy” over Obama’s choice of Warren. It is certainly not the same as the Wright case, however, as Obama folded when the right attacked his association.At any rate, Obama agrees with Warren on the marriage issue as far as I know from his, and Biden’s, public position. Obama ran for office as a Christian, so he may also agree with Warren on creationism, man/dinosaur coexistence, demon possession and faith healing. It’s a bit of a myth that Obama is actually someone other than who he has claimed to be.

  • http://jennydemilo.blogspot.com JennyDemilo

    “all that’s going on here a reverse of the Reverend Wright faux-controversy”Way to discount everyone who is not in agreement with you Lee. Good job.

  • http://www.leestranahan.com Lee Stranahan

    The more I think about, the more I realized how oppressed I am.What about my right to marry more than person? I’m not thinking about it right now, but there was a period in my life where I would have – but my civil right to marry the people I was in love with wasn’t even on the table.And what about the rights of a bisexual man or woman to marry two or more different partners if they so choose?This isn’t even part of the public policy discourse and I don’t see members of GLBT communities caring much about protecting the rights of poly people….

  • http://unrelatedcontent.com Travis D

    Oh man you ARE a poly enthusiast. The fattest and least organized of all internet niche communities~~~!

  • http://www.leestranahan.com Lee Stranahan

    I haven’t been actively poly for twelve years and back then the internet part was nascent – but whatever.I do believe consenting adult people have the right to pick the sorts of romantic relationships they want – straight, gay, mono, poly…It hadn’t occurred to me I was such a victim until I was told to shut because it doesn’t effect me…which also makes the assumption that I’m not bisexual.

  • gypsysoul

    lee the “deviancy” issues you raised are all out of choice…very different than rape and being gay!the poly thing…just “greedy” in my mind! i love pickles and chocolate but i don’t eat them together!

  • http://www.leestranahan.com Lee Stranahan

    Gyspy – you asked how I’d feel if Warren were attacking me and I answered that, in fact, he is.

  • http://jennydemilo.blogspot.com JennyDemilo

    wow Lee you sure get your panties in a wad when you perceive that someones telling you to shut up. Funny you seen to have no issues at all telling others how to act…why will you not accept this gift lee

  • http://www.leestranahan.com Lee Stranahan

    Jenny – whose panties are in what wad? And who is telling anyone how to act? Not me…I’m stating my opinions and when questioned on something, I just answered it honestly…

  • Lyle

    Perhaps my memory fails me, but I thought the original premise was that the left were batsh*t crazy because the Wright and Warren controversies were identical…which they were except that Wright did not call for the removal of anyone’s established rights and Obama rewarded one and abandoned the other.If polyamory was established as a legal union in California, and removed with the help of Rev. Wright’s campaigning, and Rev. Wright was giving the benediction, then sure…your argument makes sense.

  • http://jennydemilo.blogspot.com JennyDemilo

    the panties would be yours which appear to be firmly wadded in a bumch based on the “im such a deviant” post above.ALL youve been doing on this subject is telling people how to act.You really dont see that?

  • http://www.leestranahan.com Lee Stranahan

    I don’t see it at all, but since it’s all I’ve been doing I’m sure you can copy and paste an example…

  • http://www.leestranahan.com Lee Stranahan

    Lyle – too many points mixed up in one post for me to untangle. But – Wright wasn’t abandoned for his opinions but for saying that they were really Obama’s opinions…

  • http://www.leestranahan.com Lee Stranahan

    And Jenny – how does answering a question = panty wad. I was asked how I’d feel if Warren didn’t approve of me and I explained how he doesn’t.

  • gypsysoul

    ok lee…do you feel the parts of your life stated above are out of choice?

  • http://www.leestranahan.com Lee Stranahan

    Gypsy – does Rick Warren care if they are by choice? No, he doesn’t. It’s still sin. Did I ‘choose’ to fall in love with two people at once? Not exactly…but I chose what to do about those feelings.

  • http://obamaproject.windonwater.net QueenTiye

    Erm… Posted by: gypsysoul at December 21, 2008 12:31 PM:

    btw…is QT jesus incarnate?

    Emphatically no… and what did you mean by that? I’m not sure if that’s supposed to be a joke or some sort of sarcasm at my expense.I started to write a longer post in reply to the topic at hand, but this “Jesus incarnate” thing makes me feel as though perhaps I’m overextended on the issue. So I’ll be still.QT

  • http://www.leestranahan.com Lee Stranahan

    I think it was a dig at me, QT. You have shown a good deal of class and restraint, IMO – more than me, certainly…

  • Lyle

    Well, I think that if Warren said that he was “a pastor” and Obama was a “politician” and they each have different audiances, it would be highly unlikely that Warren would get the Wright treatment. Anyway, I prayed for God to remove the snow off my sidewalk but so far he’s being mysterious so I guess I’ll have to cover for him yet again.

  • gypsysoul

    lee…warren may not care if they are by choice, but i assume the people who are condemned for their lives which are NOT by choice feel a lot different than those condemned by warren based on a personal choice/preference. you are not poly at the moment, you could quit porn, you had the choice of marrying the person you were living with. i am kinda positive on the fact that people don’t choose to be raped or gay.QT…not a dig at all! you are a steady stream of reason, seeing through the obvious of a situation to a point unthought in my mind. i see no double standard-ery with you. you give the worst people a bit of humanity. i can’t ride that train with you most of the time, but i value you showing me the trip! (if that makes sense)

  • gypsysoul

    not a dig at you either lee! now my last post is questionable! hehe

  • http://www.leestranahan.com Lee Stranahan

    Gypsy – people who are raped don’t have to have an aabortion. Warren doesn’t criticize rape victims to my knowledge.And people can decide to be in gay relationships or not. Maybe they can’t ‘chose’ to be heterosexual. They could choose to be celibate, which is what the Buddhists seem to recommend.

  • gypsysoul

    correct me if i am wrong but doesn’t “zero tolerance” abortion beliefs include rape?and stating rape victims don’t have to have an abortion is..well..retarded..of course they don’t have to have an abortion but the idea of having to raise a child concieved in a dark alley by force doesn’t really convey “baby shower this sunday afternoon” to me!and gay people have the choice to live lonely, celibate lives, shut off from love? the same emotion you hold so dearly? awesome thought lee!!!

  • jm

    So, Lee show us exactly where Warren said he’s against abortion unless the woman was raped.

  • http://jennydemilo.blogspot.com JennyDemilo

    Since i just had to force quit 3 times while trying to access the archives here i cant give you the little cut and pasties you requested. However if you really think your consistent and none stop posting on this subject and the subsequent getting into in the comments with pretty much anyone who sees things different not “telling people how to act” then there is nothing i can do to show you that, even if i was able to access the archives and cut and paste.trying to talk to you is like trying to argue someones faith.. cant be done. You’ve drawn your line in the sand and no matter what approach anyone takes its impossible for you to see beyond your drawn line and believe me many people on this blog have tried many different approaches, you react to them all the same.you don’t give a fuck, you believe what you believe and nothing is going to detour you on the subject. No wonder you think Warren is a gift you operate similarly to him.

  • http://themidnightsolution.blogspot.com LTMidknite

    You know, I’m just gonna say my peace and then let the chips fall where they may.The GLBT has no leadership, no focus, and no direction.They’re still scratching their heads wondering why they just lost rights in the so-called most liberal state in the union.God help them if they actually try to take their movement to places like Georgia or Texas.And this is why they are so quick to accuse people of being homophobic bigots. Because, well, it’s not like they can do anything else.

  • http://www.leestranahan.com Lee Stranahan

    Jenny – you’re really just seeing what you want to want to see and it’s projection on your part, I think, because it’s certainly not like you’ve indicated any openness to an approach other than your own. I haven’t one time told anyone what to say or what not to say – but you’ve told me repeatedly I’m posting too much. I have posted on the subject less than Bob – and Bob hasn’t changed his mind either.Gypsy – you asked about choices, that is how I answered.

  • http://unrelatedcontent.com Travis D

    >>And people can decide to be in gay relationships or not. Maybe they can’t ‘chose’ to be heterosexual. They could choose to be celibate, which is what the Buddhists seem to recommend.THIS is your solution? Yeah, you’re homophobic.

  • http://jennydemilo.blogspot.com JennyDemilo

    oh whatever Lee maybe you can start another post about it maybe another 5, 10, 100 as if the horse wasn’t already beaten to death.The bottom line of defense of your actions “bob hasn’t told me to stop” is hilarious as if that’s the barometer for you not knowing when to say when. Instead of owning your actions, good show!Im so over this shit, keep on keeping on Lee you’ve managed to turn more people off then on, way to communicate brother!

  • http://www.leestranahan.com Lee Stranahan

    My solution to what, Travis? Since I’ve said repeatedly that I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being gay, it’s nothing I’m trying to “solve”.Interesting that you think being gay is something that needs to solved, Travis. That proves conclusively that you’re the homophone- and since you used the word ‘solution’ as in ‘final solution’ – yeah, you’re a Nazi.

  • http://unrelatedcontent.com Travis D

    >>homophoneBetween this, finding out you’re on DeviantArt, the poly thing, and declaring that gay christians should just eat shit and die alone, you’ve had quite a day.

  • josh

    I’ve lived with two woman at once – polyamory! According to Warren, this is as bad as incest.I think the BIGGER transgression, in this instance, was your continued deception of both the Ropers and that nice Mr. Ferley that you were gay.But your point seems to be non-existent. You’re restating the horrible things that people take offense to and from, and just saying, “So?”I mean, what’s the functional difference between what you’re saying, in just plainly stating the egregious beliefs of the Warrens of the world with an implied, “so?” (F’rinstance, the “a raped person doesn’t NEED an abortion) and, say, a midnight raid where you’re arrested, Kafka style, and convicted of something you never are given a chance to defend yourself against, and put in prison for, indeterminately? Fed, not tortured, but you know, imprisoned.You don’t NEED free and unrestricted movement. People commit themselves to institutions voluntarily, right? I mean, some people do, so that must prove it isn’t humanly necessary to be free. Lots of people survive for lifetimes in prisons. Or without free speech. Or protections of privacy. If that’s your benchmark of the idea of “necessity” then I don’t think there’s any talking about not just this subject, but ANY.What you don’t seem to grok here is that everybody understands that people like Warren have something resembling an internally consistent set of rules that they believe should be how everything works.What you don’t seem to understand is that it is everyone’s right to be a)horrified conceptually at those ideas, should they prove repugnant and b)rightfully afraid of ceding anything resembling moral authority or influence to such a figure who as recently as LAST MONTH used his influence and public standing to organize political action based on the enforcing of his religious code.You seem to be saying, “Yeah, so? That’s what he BELIEVES is right.”I take it then you have the same sort of blase attitude toward, like, the Taliban? Or the Iranian Morality Police? “Yeah, but they BELIEVE this and this.”We know that. We oppose it. We don’t want to give it more oxygen. You are coming off as increasingly without clarity in this whole thing. I don’t get your point.Is it that you think that by being nice and playing footsie with some of the nicer aggrressors against your liberties (because that’s how we’re defining wanna-be theocrats), they might play nicer?We disagree.Is it that you think the tapping for a national stage at a huge, world-wide-viewed event is unimportant?We disagree. A similar national stage (with less viewership) at the 2004 DNC launched Obama as a nationally known speaker and figure.Is it that you are upset that we find his ideas repugnant, even while ceding that he has the right to repugnant ideas (as do people like Pat Buchanan, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O’Rielly, Jeff Foxworthy, etc.) and don’t want them in any way validated on a day we worked very hard to achieve, and people like him worked very hard to make it not happen? That we’d be similarly upset if Limbaugh were tapped to make a cameo, as a display of “big-tent-ism?” Well, we’re upset. Deal.Your whole point seems, “Well, I’m not upset about it. Therefore, if you are, you must be crazy, since we don’t have the same emotional reaction.”When meanwhile, a slight left-hand dig at home-schooling from someone got you ready rumble, Jets Vs. Sharks style.Beyond digging in your heels, I don’t get what your point is. You’re seemingly arguing that there’s no cause to have an emotional reaction to something offensive, simply because you don’t share it? Or that if one DOES have a different reaction, it must be for a series of stupid reasons– even though we’ve laid out –painstakingly– our actual reasons.You’re actively disproving the ability to disagree without being disagreable.It is almost funny, “WHY CAN’T YOU STOP BEING DISAGREEABLE, YOU DUMB SHITS? DON’T YOU SEE HOW UNREASONABLE YOU’RE BEING ABOUT NOT LIKING AN UNREASONABLE FIGURE? You must be deranged or retarded, because look at me, I totally am agreeable here, and you’re naive and, like, making mistakes of bad fiction writers. FUCK, I hate disagreeable people.”

  • http://www.leestranahan.com Lee Stranahan

    Travis – the diabetes in my eyes makes it very difficult to see the screen. I have to blow up the letters very large and that pushes them off the side. So, sorry I have typos.I never declared what you said and you’re well aware of that. If someone believes being gay is a sin and they also believe they were born gay, I mentioned the choice they have. Of course, the choice I think they should make is not beleiving that it’s a sin – but that wasn’t the discussion.Apparently, Jenny wants you to be able to lie about me all day while I sit idly by and whistle – but I prefer not to. So, keep lying and I’ll keep replying.

  • http://www.leestranahan.com Lee Stranahan

    Josh – respectfully…one of the reasons I think some of the points are getting lost here is that there’s a lot of different comments colliding with one another. I respond to what someone said in response to what someone else says is implied by something somebody else said….it’s hard to keep things straight, really.So – if you have a question or something, I’ll answer it. If there’s a specific point I can clarify, I’ll try to do just that. If not, no worries – it’s all very tiring.

  • http://jennydemilo.blogspot.com JennyDemilo

    “Apparently, Jenny wants you to be able to lie about me all day”way to miss the point..

  • josh

    Lee:Mainly, I wanted to make a Jack Tripper/THREE’S COMPANY joke.Other than that, yeah, I think we ultimately understand each others points.While disagreeing.Without becoming… something.SMILEY EMOTICON!