The Smallness Of Our Justice System

Posted on 12/28/2008 at 2:44 pm by admin

by Lee Stranahan

Yes, as through this world I’ve wandered
I’ve seen lots of funny men. Some will rob you with a six-gun,
and some with a fountain pen.
Woodie Guthrie, Pretty Boy Floyd

The Bernie Madoff case – and pity the guy, because he’s now a prisoner of his penthouse – it does bring up an interesting point about our criminal justice system. It’s very small-time.

If a dude was caught sticking up a 7-11 for $80, we can handle that. He’d likely go away for a while. But when a guy steals $50 Billion with a B dollars – what the hell do you do with him? It’s just so out of proportion that there’s nothing much you can do that’s rightly called ‘justice’ by comparison. Same with any corporate criminal.

It’s not a new problem or even an American problem. This is where concepts like heaven and hell provide some comfort for many. For lots of us, though, not so much.

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  • GItheJOE

    I am happy you brought up the heaven and hell thing with the money thing.What about the criminals that con people into giving them money for decades by lying to them?The lie is,”Every tenth calf belongs to the lord”.This is called stealing when you give money to imaginary things.I put pastors and televangelist in the same category as madoff and other corporate slim.

  • http://www.leestranahan.com Lee Stranahan

    GI, there’s actually another way of looking at tithing or giving money to charity or a church – it has the psychological effect of feeling like you have abundance in your life….that you have enough where you can give away 10% off the top. In that sense, it’s not an imaginary thing at all…and people who practice religions often find that the practice contributes to their success in enormous ways. And of course, in many cases that money goes to help less fortunate people.So – you don’t have to give to a church to get the benefit. It could be 10% to any charity at all and you’d get the same effect.

  • ceu

    Yeah, what Lee said. Giving to a church is voluntary. Investing a foundation’s endowment is being responsible to the people who gave the money & who expect it will used in the way they intended in perpetuity.I read that the Elie Weisel Foundation was particularly hard hit.Bastard.(Madoff et al)

  • GItheJOE

    I don’t know what church you guys went to but the 10 percent isn’t off the top if you have it. I was always told to give it whether or not I had it because God would bless me. Remember tithing is the one thing God tells us to test him on. That is right mortal man can and should test an immortal god with money. I am sorry but this is a fucking scam and a business.Why is the offering plate passed around after you sing and dance fellowed by a scary message of giving what is already god’s. Because people feel better and are willing to give more money after more oxygen enters their lungs. The church has studied this and made it a part of their business plan.I know their are very few similarities between pastors and madoff but I don’t believe that they are going to a fiery lake for all time. There isn’t such a place and the rich powerful know this that is why they do this evil shit to other poor people. Sorry.

  • http://unrelatedcontent.com Travis D

    Based on that logic, Lee, you should just switch to homeopathic treatments for your family’s healthcare needs. Sure, it doesn’t actually DO anything, but it you may find that the practice contributes to your physical health in enormous ways.

  • http://unrelatedcontent.com Travis D

    Also, to your original post:>>But when a guy steals $50 Billion with a B dollars – what the hell do you do with him?Life in jail. The end.

  • Alan4s

    Based on that logic, Lee, you should just switch to homeopathic treatments for your family’s healthcare needs. Sure, it doesn’t actually DO anything, but it you may find that the practice contributes to your physical health in enormous ways.Posted by: Travis D

    So Travis, you’re equating giving to charities (even non-religious ones) to hoo-doo magic health treatments? In other words, you think helping the needy, sick, and destitute, or even an education based or community betterment charity is the equivlient of throwing coins in a fountain or throwing chicken bones, right?Because if that’s not what your saying, then you’re just being a prick because you have had a disagreement with Lee on other topics, and you wouldn’t be that small, would you?

  • http://unrelatedcontent.com Travis D

    >>So Travis, you’re equating giving to charities (even non-religious ones) to hoo-doo magic health treatments?No, just religious ones. I should have specified tithes in my example, granted.

  • http://unrelatedcontent.com Travis D

    Also I know I’m being trolled here but I’d say my statement holds regardless. Lee was asserting that donating money (or tithing, which is more compulsory than a donation) was somehow mystically therapeutic. I posited that homeopathy works in much the same way.

  • ceu

    He was talking about how donating makes you feel good psychologically….and it’s true. It does.

  • http://unrelatedcontent.com Travis D

    That may be, but the actual substantive benefit of such a sensation is debatable at best.Tiger rocks and all that.

  • http://www.leestranahan.com Lee Stranahan

    Religions are capable of doing a lot of good things, too. This is why I’m in favor of some ‘faith based’ partnerships between the government and religious organizations that are doing good works. In a lot of cases, they are the only ones out there doing that sort of work.If you’re feeling really anti-religious, do yourself a favor and attend some Unitarian-Universalist churches – all the bad stuff most people (liberal, especially) say about religions simply don’t apply there at all. And it gives you a better perspective on the positive aspects of all world religions.

  • http://unrelatedcontent.com Travis D

    >>(liberal, especially)Yes, those damned liberals and their silly love of things like science and the separation of church and state.

  • http://www.leestranahan.com Lee Stranahan

    Well, exactly Travis. UU churches are very liberal in my experience – so it doesn’t have the right wing bent that many Baptist (for example) churches might.I didn’t say ‘damned liberals’ or said liberal positions are silly – and I don’t think I implied any negative connotation there. Of course, I’m a liberal so why would I?Attending UU services really deepened my appreciation of the progressive tradition in America and was very helpful to me at difficult times, such as when I was going through relationship troubles a few years ago.

  • http://www.leestranahan.com Lee Stranahan

    BTW, so everyone is clear – I accept the gift of Travis that the universe has handed me..

  • http://obamaproject.windonwater.net QueenTiye

    I guess it’s always fun to bash religion.Lee, I appreciate you.QT

  • GItheJOE

    Lee, there is no way anything faith or religious based should have anything to do with the government or vis versa. I couldn’t give a damn if you worship space aliens or buddha I just don’t want my government giving them special privileges.On the other point, I like to call that special feeling people get from faith based groups when something is bad in their lives and that special thing helps them the “Magic Box”. I as a non believer don’t have a magic box to put all my bad shit in when life is tough. I really think it is a coup out to dealing with real problems in a real world.I wish I could say,”Jesus/Space Aliens will provide and take care of me.” I like your work lee but no one will ever bring me back to the dark side of the force again. Remember my father is a preacher and I am the product of 25 years of prosperity theology.

  • http://www.leestranahan.com Lee Stranahan

    Well, there’s obviously a long tradition in the country of giving churches special privileges like no taxes. That’s settled precedent and policy, really, and I don’t see any groundswell of support for changing that.And I’m not saying ‘go back to religion you were raised in’…or even go back to any religion. But don’t put all religion or it’s adherents into the same magic box.

  • GItheJOE

    Point well taken. It is wrong of me to judge your religion without attending a seminar.I do believe that all religious associations should be taxed because none of them are outside of politics. Plus it sounds like the tax code was written by the almighty.

  • ceu

    Then perhaps the better path would be to get them out of politics rather than dragging them in further by requiring them to pay taxes.If we’re going to use the Constitution as an arguing point about the separation of church & state, then we’ve got to acknowledge that it makes churches a special class & the SCOTUS has determined that that means they don’t pay taxes.

  • http://www.osborneink.com Matt Osborne

    Lee! Know what you get when you cross a Unitarian with a Klansman?…A burning question-mark.(rim shot)

  • bibimimi

    I have thot of many points. Bernie was going apeshit when Harvey Pitt was running the SEC and everyone knew he was a do-nothing turd. Bernie could not have acted alone and is in the process of making a deal that’ll keep him out of prison long enough to keep quiet and heavily medicated and then fake his own death and go to the same island Ken Lay is on.

  • http://www.politicalpartypooper.wordpress.com/ politicalpartypooper

    It’s simple. He’s a traitor. He has taken the fiduciary trust given to him by US citizens, and betrayed it. That’s treason.Hang him.