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I think they really need to re-evaluate their approach to the Senate. They need to make the Republicans filibuster–as it is now, the Republicans are having their cake and eating it too.They are watering down the bills effectiveness and they are voting against it to position for 2010 (hoping and praying a watered down bill will fail). Obama and the Dems can still listen to the other side, but the concession business needs to stop becuase it is clear they will continue to obstruct. Obama needs to use the bully pulpit and brand the right wing as obstructionist and partisan in a such a dire time.The key is to get the strongest bill possible, not to give concessions that will have no impact on bringing Republicans along. They gave up a lot on this bill, and it still didn’t move the needle. It is clear that the Republicans idea of bipartisanship is for Obama to continue the policies of George W. Bush.

If the Republicans do not want to participate in government, FUCK ‘EM!The rest of the country can leave them behind. Republicans hate government after all so we’re all better off if we leave them out of doing something they hate: governing.GOP = Party first, Country last.

I’m with tinaThe GOP is a group of unamerican, unpatriotic, treasonous scum. They should be placed under arrest. (I’m almost serious.)

Steele gives ‘em a friggin’ “atta-boy” for remaining the die-hard scumbag eff-you dipshits that got us here in the first place.I don’t think I’m misinterpreting this.

i’m with jg. lee, do you still think we should kumbayah with these bitches?! yes they are giving democrats material to use against them in elections but isn’t the basic character traits of the party enough at this point? if this was the people you employeed would you put up with this behavior?!

What is it with this “we” and “they” talk from you chumps? The they’s are “watering down” the bill because it puts government in the drivers seat of a triple rigged mac truck, at night, on a single lane road with no lamp posts, on Independence Pass in the Rocky Mountains, during the Winter. The ultimate bull in a China-shop analogy, except, more than fine China is at stake.The we’s compiled a 1,000+ page document, behind closed doors, regarding a matter that calls into question fundamental issues of capitalism and paternal governance. Again, bull in a China shop.Just as with the first emergency bill, this one is a shit show, just a more expensive one and with Obama’s handsome face stamped on it.The fact of the matter is that both the they’s and the we’s are a single group of vanguards jockeying for political clout. That is true irrespective which side of the aisle they sit on.

>>The we’s compiled a 1,000+ page document, behind closed doors, regarding a matter that calls into question fundamental issues of capitalism and paternal governance.Exactly how the Republicans ran their chop-shop from 2000 to 2006. Democrats were barred from taking part in the process, bills were voted on in late night, last minute meetings and if a Dem protested Frist would drag out the “Nukular Option.”Payback’s a bitch, ain’t it……..

Mills,Where do you find yourself on the We vs. They political spectrum? My spider sense was going off reading your post. Pick a side, party or STFU. Neutral isn’t option if you want to bitch about the process.

They need to make them stand up and filibuster–plain and simple.

I am with tina and SG on this. Ef’m. Never met a Republican I trusted. Serious.

Mills -Very well stated Sir (or Madam).If the opposition stated their opinion as eloquently as you then a discussion could take place and a useful bipartisan effort could produce a bill that we could all at least live with if not be happy with.Instead. The GOP has refused to cooperate. They repeat the same worn-out rhetoric that we have heard from them for the past 30 years and they do nothing but obstruct all efforts to compromise. SO FUCK THEM. We voted to not have anymore of their lying bullshit. It’s just that simple. Trickle down ships our jobs overseas. We’ve had enough.

Everybody really should give John Boner (R-OH) some applause for his outstanding, dramatic and serious performance on Capitol Hill today that got him lots and lots of tee vee time. He’s very, very skilled at waving around a large stack of papers while complaining in a very loud voice about what’s in the bill while also bitching about the fact that he hasn’t had ANY time to read it. I guess he’s taken acting classes from Lindsey Graham.Also, WTF is up with the new Republican talking point about only “having a few hours to read this BIG bill!!! It’s HUGE and there are LOTS of words!!!” (I’m waving a very large stack of papers while I type). Didn’t they KNOW this was coming down the pike? Jack Cafferty on CNN is saying that lawmakers only had a couple of hours to read 1100 pages of this bill after it appeared on-line at 11pm Thursday night. Cafferty’s asks: “What does this REALLY say about transparency in the Obama Administration?”Yep, it’s ALL Obama’s fault. I need a sedative…

Mills -I ignored your ‘chumps’ insult because I assumed that you are a Republican and thus are a rude prick by nature and not by intent.

of course….the last two elections, the vast majority of American voters demonstrated their contempt of republicans. The GOP has proven they’re a party of assholes. They don’t get it and they don’t care to.I have many republican friends. For the most part, they’re good people. They aren’t homophobes, they care about poor people, don’t want our soldiers dying in another country. But they listen to talk radio and it drives how they vote. I’ve never understood.

Maybe we should go on a field trip to a rightwingnut blog and dust up the place…….

I don’t remember Republicans bitching that they didn’t have time to read The Patriot Act™ and that got passed half an hour before anyone even wrote the goddamned thing. Of course, only two or three Democrats read the fucker either.Course, that was only 342 pages. They should have been able to chow that down in 20 minutes.

………….on second thought, we probably wouldn’t get past security……

Ady – Great observation. “I haven’t had enough time to read this thing but God told me it’s filled with vast badness.”Boner is a dick. (from the Department of Redundancy Department)The bulk of the bill has been been available for about 3 weeks. The recent changes are marked as such and is no where near the entire document. They partied in Warm Springs VA when they should have been reading this bill. They are lying, their normal M.O.

Curly Lasagna –”Pay back’s a bitch?” If payback is the agenda then the Dems are certainly doing an excellent job. If delivering on promises of transparency, change, hope, and the like, they are doing exactly what I thought they would do, the opposite.Who is in your boy’s cabinet? The same faces running around D.C. for the last decade. Your girl in the house is channeling a sketchy, unread, behind closed doors bill worth a trill, through the political process.As partisan as the Elephants are acting in not cooperating, the Donkeys are doing the same in placing blind and uninformed votes. It’s pure side choosing. It is not something acceptable, e.g., a difference of opinion on an issue where reasonable minds can differ. We are looking at ignorant politicians voting based on whether they wear blue or red.GIthePotato –What do you mean neutral isn’t an option if you want to bitch about the process? That proposition barely makes sense. Isn’t bitching about the process taking a side? The side of being opposed to the way the process has been handled. Wait … my spider sense is going off.It’s telling me that you think Bill Maher and John Stewart should run for senate. Maybe they should, they won’t have much to talk about now that their primary source of funnies is stretched out in his Texas hammock woven of America’s stolen greatness.Look, I believe in change, I believe the wrong people have been in power for too long, and I believe my doctor should be the sole decider on how to proceed with any of my prospective health concerns. I believe in accountability. I despise rhetoric and side choosing. I believe my parents are my mom and dad, not Harry, Nancy, and Obama.That’s my side. Will you now allow me to bitch??

I agree Stewart and Maher would make awesome Senators.Your doctor doesn’t make the decisions now! Your insurance company makes those decisions.What if someone’s parents are mom and mom or dad and dad? Is this a problem?I believe in accountability also.However, I have the brass necessary to make tough decisions not just follow my party of talk show hosts. Do you?

Mills, you need a week long interview before you are allowed to vent on the GDAB.

Who is in your boy’s cabinet?

Someone has to play knee-jerk Politically-Correct Thought-Cop around here, so I’ll call racism on this chestnut.Fucking racist!

…and I believe my doctor should be the sole decider on how to proceed with any of my prospective health concerns.

Sounds good to me, too. Now what do we do about the 47 million Americans that don’t have a doctor?

>>…and I believe my doctor should be the sole decider on how to proceed with any of my prospective health concerns.So… what’s the difference between the government telling your doctor what they can or can’t do, and the HMO or insurance company telling your doctor what they can and can’t do?The only difference is profit motive.

GOOD CALL Mr. Dingeldein!!!I missed the racism.Oh and fuck all the people without healthcare. We need to stop the pussy liberal doctors from providing free healthcare to people that show up missing limbs to the E.R. Now that is change I can believe in.

And naturally those reps and senators who refuse to vote for the stimulus will refuse the money that will be spent in their districts to create jobs and build up crumbling infrastructure, right? I mean, afterall they’re just looking out for their constituents right?

Mills -Bitch away. You have stuff to say that is well worth reading.We get many trolls here that only want to disrupt.I apologize for any rudeness.

I believe my parents are my mom and dad, not Harry, Nancy, and Obama.

What a wonderfully fucking Whitey thing to say. How nice for you, with your Mom and Dad, your little half-acre White picket fence and your Wonder bread sammiches. You enjoy being you, Mills! Fuck me it’s good to be a Middle-Class Whitey!What is with this Talking Point about Democrats wanting to parent from a massive government because we think Americans are babies that need taking care of? What does that even mean, that quote I slugged? I believe my mommy and daddy are my parents too, but that does diddly fucking squat for the millions of Americans living in poverty and dying unnecessarily without health care. Poverty isn’t a choice, and some social problems are simply too big for your local church or charity to eradicate alone.I applaud your reasoned and well-written arguments, and welcome dissent. But “I believe my parents are my mom and dad, not Harry, Nancy, and Obama” is meaningless Libertarian folderol.FOLDEROL I SAYS!

At best this bill is a baby-step in the right direction- so as not to upset the status quo without fair warning- but wait just a gall dang minute, didn’t the tax cutters and the old guard badly lose the last two elections?!Either democrats are playing one sneaky game of politik, or they just seriously need to grow a pair!

GI –You write like you watch too much T.V. What do you mean “I have the brass necessary to make tough decisions?” Are you a congressman/woman? Too much T.V. friend. Calling yourself a democrat or a republican, and arguing from there, does not require brass. It merely requires script reading (again, too much T.V.), i.e., the ability to recite your parties rhetoric in response to the other parties rhetoric.When I talked about who I believe my parents are I said “mom and dad” because, in fact, I have a mom and dad.I have no problem with mom and mom, dad and dad, mom and dad (in this instance, dad has a vagina, but refers to herself as “dad”), mom and dad (in this instance, mom has a penis, but refers to himself as “mom”), mom and dad (in this case, dad used to have a vagina, but now has a penis, thus, he calls himself “dad”), mom and dad (in this case, mom used to have a penis, but now has a vagina, thus, she calls herself “mom), just plain dad, or just plain mom.As a sidenote, you are so rehearsed in your parties ways that you gratuitously bring gay issues into the discussion. As if that earns you Liberal points.I can get more relativistic if you’d like, but my point remains the same. Anything along the lines of the situtaions described above are more appropriately parent-child relationships than the American peoples relationship with its government.Your comment about insurance practices is interesting (in my head, I wrote that in as smug a tone as possible). As if supplanting insurance control with government control is some how better or more efficient. Not sure what you were getting at there, but you should explain.To be honest, it isn’t insurance companies that decide your course of treatment, it is your doctor. Then, your insurance company will cover the expense or try not to cover it under the terms of a contract. A contract hopefully understood and certainly signed by the person to be charged.Whereas government control will be based on fleeting notions of public policy.As far as your nomination for Maher and Stewart… I am convinced that you are the liberal equivalent of a republican that smokes cigars because they want to be like Rush Limbaugh.

Keep it going, Elvis. I think we have a well written troll. Upgrades. I love upgrades.

what’s up with racists coming here just to piss off the GDAB crowd??ride em in, move em out!I smell a theme some coming on..

Well-written, yes. But I wouldn’t call Mills a troll. And you owe him some answers, he’s calling you out, T.V. Boy.

HA!Best one I’ve heard all week!!

Let me unpack that nonsense you just posted.>>You write like you watch too much T.V. What do you mean “I have the brass necessary to make tough decisions?” Are you a congressman/woman?No, I am someone that has made and continues to make tough decisions. A “present vote” is not an option in my line of work.>>I have no problem with mom and mom, dad and dad, mom and dad (in this instance, dad has a vagina, but refers to herself as “dad”), mom and dad (in this instance, mom has a penis, but refers to himself as “mom”), mom and dad (in this case, dad used to have a vagina, but now has a penis, thus, he calls himself “dad”), mom and dad (in this case, mom used to have a penis, but now has a vagina, thus, she calls herself “mom), just plain dad, or just plain mom.This comment oddly contains 4 “penis” and 3 “vagina”.>>As a sidenote, you are so rehearsed in your parties ways that you gratuitously bring gay issues into the discussion. As if that earns you Liberal points.For someone that just used 4 “penis” and 3 “vagina” in a previous post I would stay away from telling me that I bring THE GAY into the conversation.Adding…Yes, I just received 12 liberal points on the score of life. 15 more and Obambi buys me a new house.>>As far as your nomination for Maher and Stewart… I am convinced that you are the liberal equivalent of a republican that smokes cigars because they want to be like Rush LimbaughI smoke cigarettes but I don’t like to touch little boys so that is as far as I can go.

>>I apologize for any rudeness.Oh, please, Git. This is the same little schmuck who posted this yesterday:Maybe Rush, Hannity, and every other American hates what you moronic incompetent liberals are doing to our great nationPosted by: Susan Desgrousilliers at February 12, 2009 4:04 PMHow do we know? S/he also said this:

continued: And, your boy obama represented ACORN and:Most economist have agreed that FDR did more harm than good, by doing just what your boy oboma is doing now.Seriously – people who post that shit deserve any rudeness that comes their way.

To be honest, it isn’t insurance companies that decide your course of treatment, it is your doctor. Then, your insurance company will cover the expense or try not to cover it under the terms of a contract. A contract hopefully understood and certainly signed by the person to be charged.

That’s supposed to be funny, right? If not, where can I get that pair of rose-colored glasses you’re wearing?You must be joking if you think the primary motivator behind medical cost and benefit analysis has anything to do with the contract signed between patient and health care provider. Ever hear of gatekeeper clauses? Doctor incentives? Stop-loss provisions? It’s the contract between the HMO or insurance carrier and their doctors that matters most, not anything the patient signs.And again, your argument is directed entirely at those with pre-existing care. So I say again: 47 million uninsured Americans represent a Clear and Present Danger to Homeland Security.

ceu –I’ve never been here before, and would not stand by that comment.GI –There is a perfect ratio of penis to vagina in my previous posting.

No there isn’t you forget “Rush Limbaugh” that can count as either a “penis” or a “vagina”. Now, I have just insulted your high priest.

Elvis –The contractual rights between the parties is most certainly what governs insurance policies.What you speak of, are the terms within the K. And I concede that, in many cases, the terms are borderline unconscionable. I just do not agree that government ran programs are going to be the answer. Government ran programs will carry incentives and gatekeeper clauses too. In effect, it will be the ultimate HMO.Admittedly, that was a somewhat crude explanation of a very sophisticated problem, but, short of drafting a novel, I think it highlights my general stance. There are many different proposals that have floated around state legislature’s (CA, had, I thought, a pretty good one) that could be effective, but placing my medical records on file in D.C. so that my doctor, pcp, or otherwise can be judged on how they treated me, makes me feel extremely uneasy.Here’s a sentence that will enrage all that read it: I agree that there is no constitutional right to health care.

Mills said:>>I have no problem with mom and mom, dad and dad, mom and dad (in this instance, dad has a vagina, but refers to herself as “dad”), mom and dad (in this instance, mom has a penis, but refers to himself as “mom”), mom and dad (in this case, dad used to have a vagina, but now has a penis, thus, he calls himself “dad”), mom and dad (in this case, mom used to have a penis, but now has a vagina, thus, she calls herself “mom), just plain dad, or just plain mom.Wow!I dont even know what to say to that- so let me respond with an equally enlightening quote (which should’nt need citation here):>>Baby carrots are trying to turn me gay.

GI — Let me go on record, I think Rush Limbaugh is a joke.

sketchy, unread, behind closed doors bill worth a trill, through the political process.

Man, I’m sorry I missed this. Mills, go fuck yourself. Unread? For three fucking weeks this bill has been floating around. You’re telling me they bitched and moaned on the House and Senate floors about what was in the bill and then claim they didn’t have a chance to read it when it’s time to vote?! There were changes made, sure, but they didn’t change all 1000 pages. Fuck you.

And naturally those reps and senators who refuse to vote for the stimulus will refuse the money that will be spent in their districts to create jobs and build up crumbling infrastructure, right? I mean, afterall they’re just looking out for their constituents right?

SURE! Ask Lindsey Graham – he was opposed to it. Surely he will refuse any money going to South Carolina right? He’s not a hypocrite is he?

Broadway — It hasn’t been floating around for three weeks in its final form. An additional 400 pages were drafted behind closed doors. One reason there were dems that voted against it.

Broadway –Context is the key. I wrote that to highlight how things are not changing. Contrary to campaign promises of grandeur, there are still vicious partisan antics goin on. Any republicans that went left in November might be kicking themselves right now.

“SURE! Ask Lindsey Graham – he was opposed to it. Surely he will refuse any money going to South Carolina right? He’s not a hypocrite is he?”Of course not. The hell you say!

Holy cow! Mills! Welcome! I hope you’re deserving of the welcome. Just an fyi – Bob Cesca gave a very good definition of this community this Wednesday on an internet radio show called Agree to Disagree with Bob and Lee (that would be Bob Cesca, and contributing blogger Lee Stranahan). If you scroll down the front page – you’ll see the link, and if you listen in, they talk about trolls, and who is and isn’t welcome here. long story short – this isn’t a free-for-all, so you’ll have to show up and be willing to make friends, in spite of differing opinions here. Do that, and you’ll still get stiff argument for conservative views – but you won’t get cursed out (I don’t think).Anyway – just thought I’d give you the heads up (apparently a little late).QT

Mills, Mills, Mills. shaking headAs I explained to someone else last night, when your opening salvo contains a phrase like “you chumps,” you aren’t really doing much to engage anyone in constructive conversation. Which is a shame, because you do seem fairly intelligent. But, man…it’s hard to have a nice chat with someone who lets you know right off the bat that they think you are a “chump.”

Thanks QT.Will you be my friend?

I apologize for the “chump” thing. It just kinda happens with me.I’m not even sure what “chump” means. I just know it’s a general insult and an attention grabber. Its use succeeded in both, however, the latter was more my intention than the former.

Chris -It’s called leading them on.

I just do not agree that government ran programs are going to be the answer.

Why?Because getting fucked over by some company trying to make a profit is magically better than getting fucked over by an incompetent government?How about if the National Health Service is not incompetent? It could happen.

Government ran programs will carry incentives and gatekeeper clauses too. In effect, it will be the ultimate HMO.

Yes. But it will be less arbitrary and bring health care costs down. Check studies that show that medicare has single handedly restrained rising health care costs. It would do even better if it were universal.

placing my medical records on file in D.C. so that my doctor, pcp, or otherwise can be judged on how they treated me, makes me feel extremely uneasy.

This is a very good concern and I have sympathy for your concern.The lack of National Standards for Electronic Health Records is costing us an unbelievable amount every year. I don’t remember the number but it is large and includes the cost of patients getting wrong procedures because of health records incompatibility. This problem is going to get fixed with or without a universal health care system because *everyone* in the health care industry agrees that it must be done.Big Brother is already watching. Your bank transactions every time you use easypass, everything you say on the phone, every packet that crosses your internet connection all goes to he NSA.You have no privacy. Get over it.In Europe, they have the Data Protection Act (DPA) which protects the privacy of citizen data held by companies and governments.Ever wonder why we don’t have a DPA here? I have.You folks are so worried about the government turning socialist that you forgot to notice that it has already turned fascist. Socialism would be an improvement. I’m tired of jack-booted thugs.

Do not be fooled by Republipunk trolls attempting to play victim of circumstance like their benefactors in government. They come to the so-called “liberal” blogs in order to bully the regular liberal patrons. When there’s legitimate pushback and their boneheaded notions get challenged, they’ll latch onto the first thing they can in order to play like they innocently stumbled upon the blog, like Little Red Riding Hood or Golidlocks. Before getting boxed into a corner with their skewed logic, they post sarcastic retorts that conflate goober-based scuttlebutt with factual minimalism to play like they’re not simply looking to cause trouble.I find the most effective way to chase off a troll is to let them gourd themselves on their own stupidity. Soon, they’ll think they’re on a roll, and with that, they get real sloppy with their writing. They’ll proceed to post something that absolutely will embarrass their silly asses into submission. When they do, berate them unmercifully.