Another Quote of the Day

How ridiculous. Just because the Republicans differ from Democrats doesn’t mean they take “orders” from Rush Limbaugh. Rush is a conservative. Most of the Republicans left in the Senate are conservatives. It’s a philosophical diffence.

You don’t watch much news, do you. Limbaugh basically coerced Republican congressmen into voting against the House version of the recovery bill.

No, they didn’t. They would’ve voted against it regardless.

Please point out to me when Republicans have ever wanted increased spending on the various liberal projects that are packed into this bill? “Greening” low income houses? Contraception? Yeah, they totally would’ve voted for it without Rush…

If this giant crap sandwich is passed, i am going to stop paying taxes. I do not need what this house and senate and whitehouse is selling. If all of you idiots actually read the entire plan, yes it takes a good long while, but this is our money and all of us will have to pay for it for years and years, you will see that 90% of this shit is just to enlarge government. You will not get a job out of this, you will get to stand in line for your handout from the government. This is communism-plain and simple, the government giving you what they think that you need, not what you ask for or would go out and get without interference from big brother. I do not want to live in communist america. Its here and I am not going to be part of it, or pay for it. No taxation without representation!!!!!!!

I wouldn’t call it communism. I would call it reckless.

>>No taxation without representation!!!!!!!Where are you from? Unless it’s DC, then you do have representation, and you should talk to your senators and representatives about you very patriotic views.

“I do not want to live in communist america. Its here and I am not going to be part of it, or pay for it.”Then shut the fuck up and go already.

Okay, Chris. I’ll bite. It’s a philosophical difference. We’ve had eight years of your philosophy of tax cuts which, unless you’re a multi-millionaire, obviously hasn’t worked. Is your philosophy the same as the definition of insanity? Keep doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different outcome?

>>> This is communism-plain and simple, the government giving you what they think that you need not what you ask for or would go out and get without interference from big brother.I mean sure, they’re all words, but they just seem to be thrown together with no real care…Seriously though, 1. Stop saying ‘giant crap sandwich’. Once, sure, but repeating signals that you think it’s really clever. It really isn’t.2. Yes, the bill gives you what the government thinks you need. First of all, because looking out for citizens is supposed to be the job of a government for, by, and of the people. It might not be what you asked for, but they can only take so much input, and really, do you want your government listening to the “If this giant crap sandwich is passed, i am going to stop paying taxes” guy? Not to mention that no one is forcing you to accept any of these programs, but they’re there for people who need them. I actually have been reading the bill, and there a lot of government backed loan programs (meaning in case this slipped past you, that they’ll be paid back) and building projects, which actually do require people to build them. Or at the very least, require people to build the robots that will build the projects.Sure your tax dollars are going to it, but that’s part of the deal of citizenship. If you want a tax free life, I suggest becoming a bushman in the Kalahari. Also, what exactly are you going to “Go out and get for yourself” in this economy? An abandoned house to squat in? Problems like this are bigger than individuals, it’s why we have to come together collectively to fix them.Also, “this shit is just to enlarge government.” I’m sorry…do you just stick with whatever talking points float your way? Who wants to enlarge the government as a thing unto itself? Who gains from enlarging the government for the sake of it? Like there’s a senator sitting there, going, hah! All this money for the department of agriculture! Grow government grow!Out of curiosity, did you pitch a “giant crap sandwich” filled fit when BushCo started spending billion after billion on Iraq, with no plan, no oversight, no accountability? When 12 billion dollars in cash literally disappeared without a trace? When they stuck a loophole in the TARP that allowed them to, once again, spend hundreds of billions with no accountability? One hopes that you did.3. Communism? Plain and simple? The government is (once again) propping up a failing capitalist system. If we were going to go commie, this would be the best time, and we’d start by fully nationalizing the banks, which we haven’t.4. As far as the big brother reference, the bill doesn’t call for cameras to be installed in every corner of your house, and Bush was already reading all your emails.I know, I know, don’t feed the trolls, but I need the target practice.

[quote]Okay, Chris. I’ll bite. It’s a philosophical difference. We’ve had eight years of your philosophy of tax cuts which, unless you’re a multi-millionaire, obviously hasn’t worked. Is your philosophy the same as the definition of insanity? Keep doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different outcome?[/quote]No. Obama and the Democrats are free to try out their own economic theories. Just don’t expect Republican to support it. They have enough votes to pass it..They just want to coopt Republican support, because they know it’s a bad bill.Whining about the GOP not supporting this is pretty stupid.

tax cuts are not what got us here. We are here because of the reduced lending requirements requested by freddie mac to President Clinton. This lead to lending to people who where not qualified to borrow. Followed by rising oil prices, people not being able to pay back loans that they cannot afford and the collapse of the investment banks because of the bad loans. All of which happened while democrats were in power during the last two years.

Obama and the Democrats are free to try out their own economic theories. Just don’t expect Republican to support it.

I don’t expect the Republicans to support something that makes financial sense. But then have one of them come to the table with a real idea other than “more tax cuts” which by the way, are in the bill. None of these GOP Congressmen or Senators have come up with anything except complain that there’s too mch spending in a stimulus package, apparently unaware that spending IS stimulus. DeMint and McCain both put up amendments for tax cut only “stimulus” packages. That’s a great, fresh, new idea! Mr. “The Fundamentals of our Economy are Still Strong” wants more tax cuts. And then the GOP gets all whiny and they’re gonna take their ball home because no one is accepting their ideas, the same ideas that failed for the last eight years. So yeah, it’s insane to keep asking for tax cuts that have been proven not to stimulate the economy.

And your idiotic logic about Democrats wanting bipartisan support because they KNOW it’s going to fail is straight out of the Rush playbook. I know if I were a Republican, I’d always support something that I KNOW is going to fail, like tax cuts.

seejane!!!!!! That takes the cake! Blame Clinton (skipping the Republican led Congress during his final six years) and then completely forget the last eight Bush years, only citing the last two years of Democratically led Congress obstructed by the GOP. Good job! I fell off my seat laughing! You forgot to mention Whitewater or we’d have a trifecta!

You’re right. “Tax cuts” are about as new an idea s more government spending.

“This lead (sic) to lending to people who where not qualified to borrow.”If the lenders weren’t so damned greedy, and there would have been some government regulation, then, hey, you know, maybe this wouldn’t have happened.If you check the world almanac and note number of U.S. bank failures per year:1981 401982 1191983 991984 1061985 1801986 2041987 2621988 4651993 501994 151995 81996 61997 11998 31999 82000 7Now, one might argue that the economy is flowing, and these things take time, and you can’t really give credit to an administration for success/failure of it because that, but that would nullify your last statement, wouldn’t it?So shove your blame right-wing talking points. Quit whining about Clinton. God, that’s SO 1990′s.

Seejane – may I remind you that Bush inherited a $5 trillion projected surplus? I suppose you forget such trivial things. But sure, go ahead and blame Clinton and Fredie Mac and all those shifty poor people who couldn’t repay loans. Don’t bother with the unprecedented deregulation under Bush’s watch that made it so easy for bankers to target those people. The bankers didn’t care if the loans were repaid as long as they got their cut. And let’s just forget that no President in history has every cut taxes during a time of war as Bush consistently did. That’s if you call Iraq a War and not an invasion and occupation.IT WAS ALL CLINTON’S FAULT!!!

I knew I would get the progressive libs crying. truth hurts

seejane, who was responsible for the elimination of banking regulations that allowed the spazzy white guys on wall street to invent things like “credit default swaps” – you know, the toxic debt that no one can understand or pay for?Oh, yeah, it was the republican controlled congress pulling the wool over our eyes (again):

Credit Default Swaps became illegal to regulate with the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000, which was also responsible for the Enron loophole. U.S. Sen. Phil Gramm (R-TX) introduced the Act on behalf of financial industry lobbyists. The Modernization Act was rushed through Congress as a companion bill to the omnibus spending bill, the last day before the Christmas holiday. It by-passed the substantive policy committees in both the House and the Senate so that there were neither hearings nor opportunities for recorded committee votes. The omnibus spending bill, which was 11,000 pages long, is the financial plan the government requires for everyday operations.

seejane – you’re right. I’m crying for JOY that we’re talking about a PRESIDENT Obama recovery plan, instead of SENATOR McCain’s tax cut failure.

TROLLS PWN3D at the GDAB! Any more takers?

BC, that was some serious pwnage. Props, and all that.

BC, who signed that Bill?Wasn’t it Franklin Raines of who said Mortgage securities were so secure?Who approved variable rate mortgages?Tax cuts immediately go to the people, in their paycheck. They can then use those additional funds to spend on or pay on debt. Is this such a terrible thing? Government needs to cut their spending, not load up with additional spending.Government already makes more money in profits than the oil companies do, for doing nothing.Where does it all go? They spend $10 Billion a day as it is. Do we need to spend more borrowed money that needs to be payed back later? NO!!!Just let people and businesses KEEP more of what they earn!SIMPLE!

Mr. Origins, serious question:Why haven’t the tax cuts of the last 8 years helped the economy? Explain to us why we should beleive that doing more of the same will help now, in this crisis, when it didn’t help at all before. Please, I’d like to understand.

No Origins, it’s not a terible thing, but didn’t you see that the last 3 times we got tax “rebate” checks, it did nothing to stimulate the economy? People either pay bills with it or save it. What did you do with your $600 or $1200 check?Tax cuts alone do not work. For every $1 spend you get $0.30 in return. Negative. When you spend a $1 in Food Stamps however, you get a $1.73 return. Positive.Even the Heritage Foundation, a conservative website, says that tax cuts do not stimulate the economy.

Temporary tax cuts are a recycled version of tax rebates, both of which people see as transitory, and will do very little to help the economy. Consumption, as a percentage of Gross Domestic Product (GDP), has been at an all time high for the past two years. Consequently, more consumer spending cannot be expected to “stimulate” the economy.

And permanent tax cuts helping can be an argument, but the government can’t keep spending more than it takes in, something the “fiscal conservative” Republicans do every time they are in charge. Don’t take my word for it, look up the budget deficits for every year under Republicans compared to Democrats.

Amending my last statement: For every $1 spent in tax cuts you get $1.03, for every $1 in corporate tax cuts, you get $0.30 on the dollar.

We recovered from the DotCom recession with tax cuts, unemployment was very low, I actually lost a job after the bubble burst, and couldn’t find a job for job for over 15 months. Tax cuts restored the money flow in the economy. This has been a complicated decade. 9/11, Katrina, Wars, and so many government programs demanding 10% annual increases has brought government spending to world record numbers. Government needs to shrink, it is out of control. It basically did nothing for me during unemployment, it is private industry that helps me, and millions of others.Government siphons $10 billion a day out of the economy, and we all know how efficient government is with it’s money. Never enough. Now you all want to pile on even more debt that has to be paid back by individuals. $394 Billion in justinterest on this new bill.I’m all for helping schools, that’s why i pay over $8,000 a year in property taxes. In total, Ipay over $40,000 a year in taxes. I make $100K.I really feel that government is simply a burden, especially when I see MediCare the victim of $70 Billion in fraud every year because it’s basically impossible to identify fraud when you have 1.2 Billion claims each year on the 40 million people covered. Imagine the logistics of handling 300 million people.Government needs to streamline it’s operations, it’s trying to do too much, and too many people are depending on it to live their lives.I have no problem helping those less fortunate and disabled, but I know and you know there are many that work the system, and become dependent.and we know which party wants dependency, for votes.

I’m not advocating “rebate” checks. I advocating an across the board tax rate reduction on those making less than $250K a year. Permanent, so all working people get a raise they can count on.

Some politicians hate tax cuts, it means they have less money to spend.

So tell me how a tax cut now will:- prevent my town from laying off 10% of the firefighters;- prevent my town from laying off teachers and other school staff;- fix the roads and streets in my town.You see, all of these things are happening because state aid to all cities in my state is being cut.Tax cuts will not fix any of this.

Tax cuts also do nothing to help the 2.2 million people who have lost their job in the last four months.

We have an artificial economy based upon credit. All of this pain is necessary if we’re ever going to recover and return to prosperity. Pouring more debt onto debt we’ve already accumulated is a recipe for disaster.

the thousands of S-corporations that pay their business tax through the owners income tax would certainly be in a position to hire or rehire workers if they have more income to allocate for that, and a decrease in the corporate tax from 35% ( states also add up to 7.5% ) would also allow companies to allocate profits quarterly to use to hire/rehire workers. How can you not think that through?Firefighters are at the mercy of local governemnts which are at the mercy of local property taxes paid by people. Give the people more of the money they earn and they may then be able to make their local property taxes or pump money through local sales taxes through spending.Fixing roads? you pay gas taxes right?Roads aren’t getting fixed? Right….Let the people keep more of what they earn.The spending will flow.What I see being proposed is just what politicians love to do best, spend your money before you even earn it, and tax you for more than what you will ever get.

Pouring more debt onto debt we’ve already accumulated is a recipe for disaster.

I wish some GOP leader had said this for the last 8 years.

Uh-huh. So, you want to lower my taxes, and then tell me the solutions to my local issues I mentioned are to raise my taxes.How could you not think this through?Okay, I’ve listened, and all I’ve heard is the same theories that have not worked (else we wouldn’t be in the situation we are in). Game over. Our turn. Thanks for playing.

Alan, perhaps you can point out where I advocated raising local taxes. Maybe it’ll help if you read it again.

Tax cuts immediately go to the people, in their paycheck.

Not if they are unemployed.Do you think that the unemployed should just kill themselves so that you and yours don’t have to be bothered?I look forward to your job getting shipped to India.

>> Alan, perhaps you can point out where I advocated raising local taxes. Maybe it’ll help if you read it again.

Firefighters are at the mercy of local governemnts which are at the mercy of local property taxes paid by people. Give the people more of the money they earn and they may then be able to make their local property taxes or pump money through local sales taxes through spending.

My local government relies partially on state funds for many things (schools, roads, etc. – all cities in MA are run this way). As I said in my question to you, state funds to cities are being cut drasticly. So the only recourse to make up the difference would be to RAISE local taxes so firefighters, and teachers aren’t cut.The money for these government provided services has to come from somewhere. One way or another we will get taxed for it. Don’t deceive yourself to think otherwise.My governor, along with most of the other governors across the country, are lobbying for this recovery bill to be passed. They need the investments to keep the states, and local communities running.

92% of the nation is employed. I’ve already stated that tax cuts would allow companies to rehire, JUST LIKE IT DID AFTER THE DOT COM BOMB.Extend unemployment insurance, just like what was done then.Can I say it any clearer?Are we spending another $1.2 Trillion that we have to pay back through HIGHER taxes when we work, just to get the unemployment rate back to 4% which is where is was for the better part of Bush’s economy?Can you actually think logically or are you just on the dole?

I do think logically. You have failed to convince me. Just as the Republican party failed to convince the majority of voters with the same argument.If tax cuts worked to revive and maintain an economy, then we would not be in the situation we are in now. Can I say THAT any clearer?

No one should be able to take more of your money without consent. I was upset as hell about the war, I was not for it, nor for all the money that was spent over it. Our goverment is taking money to spend on things that we cannot agree on, sorry about my crass verbiage, I am just sick to death of goverment, right,left and center. When was the last time you got something from the government that you really thought was worth the price? My representative is not working for me, so yes, I am not getting my representation. Can you say that over the last 8 years you were happy with what you got from government? I do not want to be told I have to have to pay for something that I cant possibly benefit from, did you enjoy paying for the war? Did you do everything that you could to lower your AGI in order to keep from paying for the war? Did you not want to leave the country because of the policies? This is the world of mad hatters. Do you feel in control?

Origins -Cutting corporate taxes is *NOT* going to create enough jobs here.My job went to India (I am a software engineer with 27 years of experience and was making $120,000./year when my job went to India. My job went to India, because U.S. companies do not have to provide health benefits to engineers in India. If you give them a tax cut, they might hire more people, but they will be more Indians or Chinese getting hired not people here.Until people like you realize that you are being lied to, you will be next on the unemployment line.Every time we give the corporations a tax cut, they use it to make bigger investments in the Pacific Rim while laying off U.S. workers.Please wake up an smell reality before it is too late. It really does smell. It smells of unrestrained greed.

Silly writes:”I look forward to your job getting shipped to India.”I lost a job after the bubble. I found another writing software. Not all companies offshore, in fact most don’t. Reading your message implies they do. Yet I’m the one that needs to wake up? Go to craigslist.com and check out the classifieds.Thousands of them in this field. Thousands of foreigners come here to take them. Can’t compete?With your attitude I can understand why they’d can you for an Indian. I’ve worked with Indians. They’re smart, productive and respectable people.

92% of the nation is employed. I’ve already stated that tax cuts would allow companies to rehire, JUST LIKE IT DID AFTER THE DOT COM BOMB.

And you expect them to rehire just like that? The same banks and corporations that just got helped with the bailout and laid off 100,000 workers have just applied for 21,000 work visas to hire foreigners for those same jobs. But deregulation is okay I suppose.The Senate just had to pass a bill today to disuade this practice. H1-B. Look it up.

Carl & Alan:Arguing with people that don’t get it, refuse to get it, and never will get it, is like trying to teach a pig to sing.You’re just wasting your time and annoying the pig.

What a joke the repuglican party has become. The repuglican party with Sarah Palin as its leader, Joe(not)the plumber(not) the chief adviser and Rush Limpjaw as point man.