A Note Back To My Colleague

by Lee Stranahan

As I’ve said before, if sometimes it seems like I’m writing directly TO you, Bob – I’m usually not. When I am, I try to make it clear. Usually, I look around the blog-o-tubes to see what’s out there in the zeitgeist and then I write my take on it. I often comment on the way my comrades are looking at issues, like Rush or Rick Warren or Edwards or whatever because I’ll look at five blogs and they are all sorta saying the same basic thing. The GDAB blog is part of that pastiche but not the only part.

So if I say ‘stop the fat jokes’ it’s a general idea, not telling you to knock off the fat jokes. In fact, writers like Bob and Elvis do them a lot better than anyone.

As for addressing his ideas, I often find myself attacked for even suggesting he’s GOT ideas. Rush Limbaugh’s appeal to his large listening audience is NOT primarily based on hate and bile and all the other negatives. It’s like people who don’t listen to Howard Stern not understanding that a lot of Howard fans love him because he’s really smart and one of the best interviewers out there, period. (Trivia – Rush and Howard have the exact same birthday.)

In order to get into discussion of Rush’s ideas, it helps to be able to lay out the positive appeal of them. In other words, he’s got 20 million listeners who like Rush Limbaugh because he’s smart, funny, and expresses a view of the world they see as positive, patriotic and pro-business…especially small business. And it’s WRONG. Got that, everybody? I said it’s WRONG – but if you don’t actually understand the appeal, the discussion doesn’t go anywhere and we’re left with our own left wing echo chamber as a mirror image of the right wing one.

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  • https://www.coffeemakersetc.com/images/Paper_Filters.jpg Elvis the Dingeldein™

    That’s true, I do craft a magnificent Fat Joke.

  • http://www.thenewwearsoff.com/ Kyle W.

    I understand his appeal, and I understand that you don’t agree with him–but you’re wrong to suggest we leave him alone. See your original post for more on that from me.Anyone who was demonizing you for suggesting we take his ideas seriously is in the minority. But you’re in the minority for thinking that the coarse rhetoric he uses is rooted in those ideas.

  • http://www.thenewwearsoff.com/ Kyle W.

    Goddammit.”But you’re in the minority for thinking that the coarse rhetoric he uses is NOT rooted in those ideas.”I would do a better job expressing myself if my fingers typed what my brain thought.

  • Dan in DE

    we’re left with our own left wing echo chamber as a mirror image of the right wing one.

    well, except for those pesky facts.. you know- the ones that tend to support everything that Bob’s saying and contradict everything that Jerkholes like Drudge are saying.

  • Lee Stranahan

    Kyle – I never said leave him alone. Again, I want to win.

  • GIthePotato

    >>Rush Limbaugh’s appeal to his large listening audience is NOT primarily based on hate and bile and all the other negatives.HOLY SHIT!!! Lee, 90% of his listeners he up the hate and fear. Sorry.>>he’s got 20 million listeners who like Rush Limbaugh because he’s smart, funny, and expresses a view of the world they see as positive, patriotic and pro-business…especially small business.Rush is not a smart man. His depth is very swallow. His target market is the swallow end of the gene pool and those without higher education. Yes, there are some exceptions but not many. Sorry.Expect a phone call tonight with more input on this matter.

  • edzeppelin

    While I agree that we must understand his appeal in order to effectively argue against it, I disagree with your description of Limbaugh as “smart”. If his ideas are wrong, how can he be “smart”?Also, Bob and Elvis are hilarious and MUST keep the jokes coming!

  • Lee Stranahan

    I don’t see any advantage in misunderestimating the other side. Limbaugh is clearly a smart guy. Smart people are wrong all the time.

  • http://www.thenewwearsoff.com/ Kyle W.

    Lee, you know what I mean. The only reason to single out Rush versus the Republican party’s “principles” on the whole is that his behavior makes a cartoonishly-easy target. If we ignore his behavior and focus on his conservative beliefs, we may as well be lobbing water balloons at John McCain. It would be just as useful.As I’ve seen noted several times, his heightened status in the Republican party, combined with his naughty behavior, should be used to highlight the hypocrisy of many of their core principles. We shouldn’t simply say its unrelated, particularly when someone who can say such offensive things (the MJF debacle being the best example) is being treated as the don of their party.

  • brutlyhonest

    I was forced to listen to his drivel for years in the squadron chart room (first one in got to pick the station) and GItP pretty much hit the mark on what my reply was going to be (except I’d say shallow instead of swallow [If I was crude like rush I'd make a joke about how the fat bastard probably does, but I'm not so I won't]).

    I’ll add: His only “talent” is fomenting hate. He has no off the cuff thinking ability so he’s obviously reading whatever his writers put on paper.

    Stewart’s “apology” to rush last night is a brilliant example of how to call him out for his duplicity of conservative values vs. his actions.

  • GIthePotato

    >>misunderestimatingPlease for the Love of The Baby Jesus never use this again. It brings up bad memories that I have been burning out of my mind.Anyway, SMART is a subjective term. There really isn’t any hard evidence to prove whether or not he is an intelligent man. Some hard facts about his intelligence are, college drop out, war on science and education, global climate change denier, race baiting and just being a pompous ass. These are not qualities that I would suggest entitle Rush with the SMART label.

  • Lee Stranahan

    What writers? He’s speaking off the cuff for three hours a day.This is a good example of the facts not always being on one side..

  • http://www.bobcesca.com Bob Cesca

    I repeat: If you want to talk about his ideas, THEN DO IT.

  • GIthePotato

    Correction:shallow not swallowThanks brutly.

  • The Dogfather

    “It’s WRONG,” Lee? You’re right — Rush’s view of the world IS wrong. So is the way he promotes his ideas — by ridiculing and minimalizing everyone that disagrees with him and everything that’s contrary to his belief system.By the way, how long until YOU have to apologize to Rushbo for saying how “WRONG” his view of the world is?

  • Ann Swer

    Thirty days/30 reasons was very moving. Day #14 especially so. Rush Limbaugh, to me, is “that dude.” What with his comments regarding Michael J. Fox and Barack the Magic Negro, he epitomizes day #14. He “is” that kind of hate. But, worse, he has a microphone to reach massive audiences who are ready and willing to listen.

  • ragemage

    Two quotes from Sun Tzu that are relevant:1)Know thy self, know thy enemy. A thousand battles, a thousand victories.Sun Tzu2)Know your enemy and know yourself and you can fight a hundred battles without disaster.Sun Tzu

  • J

    I…Rush is not smart. Or I’ve seen no evidence to support this. He’s savvy, yes. He’s got business sense up the wazoo. And I will even give you that people who AGREE with him do so for the reasons you listed above (smart, funny, etc.). That does not necessitate that I think of him that way. Is it important for me to understand that the people who like him see him differently than the people who don’t? Sure, but I would think that’s obvious.

  • edzeppelin

    Lee-I don’t believe anyone is “misunderestimating” Rush’s appeal, that is totally different from labeling him as “smart”. If you define smart as “witty” or “clever” then I’ll grant you that he could be labeled smart, but if we define smart as “knowledgeable” or “wise” then I would have to disagree. If one is consistently “WRONG” how can one be knowledgeable or wise?

  • http://www.politicalpartypooper.wordpress.com politicalpartypooper

    “Rush’s view of the world IS wrong. So is the way he promotes his ideas — by ridiculing and minimalizing everyone that disagrees with him and everything that’s contrary to his belief system.”There’s some irony in that statement.Somewhere.

  • http://cousinavi.wordpress.com cousinavi

    Paranoid schizophrenics are equally sincere in their world view.Are we supposed to take their delusions into account when formulating policy?Even if they vote, as Republicans sometimes do, the only attention that need be paid is how many votes they have. When the day comes that paranoid schizophrenics have a majority of the votes, we shall all hammer the unicorn for loud music as the grass monkey commands.Which is to say…We are not required to engage bad IDEAS as though they are reasonable simply because Rush and the dittoheads really believe.Or in any way that fails to note that those ideas have been, on the evidence, utterly discredited.Clearly, Limbaugh has staked out a remote piece of turf: Conservative principles are so diametrically opposed to everything Obama that pure obstruction is the only possible response.Your answer to that bit of juvenile foolishness – utterly stubborn, tantrum-esque, willfully blind imbecility – is, “We understand you really think so…but let’s work together.”If Conservatism isn’t prepared to stand up and say, “We fucked up. You guys won. We’ll get behind you and see if your way isn’t really better…cuz it sure couldn’t be much fucking worse. We fucked up, big time…”…if Conservatism is incapable of getting their head around THAT, they are disqualified from governing by virtue of severe delusions, willful blindness, stubborn refusal to deal with anything remotely approaching reality and sheer childishness.I for one, while always treating them with the respect they deserve (a fluctuating scale to be sure), refuse to be forced into reasonable negotiation with such intense, unrelenting petulance; hollering brats burdened with a record of lies, incompetence and abject failure.Were the GOP a child, they ought to be soundly spanked and sent to bed without dinner.

  • http://cousinavi.wordpress.com cousinavi

    Re: Spanked and sent to bed without dinner…The highlight of Rush’s Dominican vacations.

  • joshd

    Your premise is incorrect. Rush’s agreeing-listeners (as opposed to those who listen because they love to hate him) do not listen for “ideas” or anything approaching “smart” or “funny.”Limbaugh is neither. He provides a valuable service, though. He facilitates an angry/racist/xenophobe’s anger or racism or xenophobia by being assured and smug, so that they are not alone.Limbaugh is not a smart man. He’s just smartER than most of his callers, which is not a high bar. Listen to his show. A goodly percentage of it is fast-talking-nothing-speak, to dazzle the yokels.It is infomercial-business-talk; like how people who sell self-confidence or “success” as an abstract don’t ever speak to any ACTUAL business. They are selling a dream of YOU, the loser-listener, as a future king of the world. Or, and here’s where Rush finds his sweet spot, convincing people in low-to-mid-paying self employment (or people LOOKING TO BECOME low-to-mid-paying-self-employers) that THEY are the upper 2%.He sells it by talking mainly about what is stopping them.The liberals in congress. Today it is Frank, it used to be Daschle, but it is always someone with nefarious, cartoonish motives to destroy “excellence.”Another goodly percentage of his broadcast is repeated stock phrases, spit out quickly and with old-tyme bluster. “The all knowing, all seeing Maha-Rush-di,” “I hold in my formerly nicotine stained fingers,” etc.He has no ideas or philosophy, actually. He just sells anger. Listen, you’ll see.

  • kansasdem

    Lee,If Rushbo is “smart” then GW must have been a fucking genius!Whether it’s Rush, Coulter, Hannity, Dobb’s, etc. doesn’t really matter, they’re appeal is not a measure of their intellect!They feed on peoples hatred and fears, and in doing so they fan the flames of hatred!

  • Lee B.

    ok, I’ll take the bait: Name ONE substantive idea that Limbaugh has come up with in the last 10 years. I’m completely serious. I listen to his show. It is nothing but soundbytes, platitudes and name-calling. He makes philosophical arguments that might make sense, but never backs them up with any substance. Just now, he was into a diatribe about how the Democrats just want to penalize The Rich. Ok, why? How? Please Rush, explain in detail how a 3% tax increase on any income earned OVER $250,000 is somehow the worst atrocity since the Holocaust on America’s hard working Rich, and will cripple our economy further (considering this was the rate they were paying during the entire 90′s when things were just peachy).Ideology aside, he’s no Thom Hartmann.

  • JackDanieL

    cousinavi, friggin goddamn awesome

  • http://unrelatedcontent.com Travis D

    lol trying to confuse the issue by invoking Sternalso>misunderestimatingseriously man, 9th grade was a fucking blast, you missed out

  • FrictionSoul

    Rush is audiological shit. Why listen to him? Why debate him? Why why why why? Is it worthwhile?Doesn’t seem to be, so why bother with this?For the record, I’ve NEVER listened to Rush. I’ve read transcripts here and there but why anyone bothers to give him more publicity is beyond me.

  • brutlyhonest

    I didn’t say he couldn’t rant for hours. I said he has no off the cuff thinking ability. Ever see him answer questions intelligently? You suppose he writes his own talking point notes?

    Regardless, he’s popular and has 20 million listeners (what’s the current population of the country?) because his rant appeals to their baser instincts. He’s also the guy who is the true poster-boy for the current GOP because his actions clearly oppose his words.

  • http://annette-justmylittlepieceoftheworld.blogspot.com/ Annette

    Rush has challenged the President to a debate.

  • http://unrelatedcontent.com Travis D

    If the President accepts he really IS as gullible as Stranahan makes him out to be and they can have each other.

  • http://www.isitbeertime.com/ jane

    >>Rush finds his sweet spotEwwwwww

  • http://annette-justmylittlepieceoftheworld.blogspot.com/ Annette

    Carl is the one who alerted me to it through a Tweet…lolIt has to be in Rush’s house, on Rush’s terms.. now do you think the Prez is going to do that…lol I don’t .. no moderator, just the Prez and Rush… for 3 hours, all on Rush’s terms on Rush’s radio show… give me a break.. even his Ditto heads called in and told him that was dumb…lol

  • thruwithbuzz

    Lee, you write a post on Bob’s blog telling writers what you think they shouldn’t write about and you wonder why Bob thinks you’re talking directly to him?

  • Ajabu

    @cousinaviWhat you said! And more eloquently than I ever could.Totally agree…

  • CJ

    Cesca:

    “If you want to talk about [Rush Limbaugh's] ideas, THEN DO IT.”

    I’m with Bob. Lee’s blogging on a progressive blog to do what? Critique progressive blogs?I’m all for introspection, but is this the best use of this valuable real estate? C’mon Lee. Prioritize.P.S. Was I right about “A Face in the Crowd” being the Andy Griffith movie you were trying to think of last week?

  • TruthSerum

    Dear LibTards,The economy is drifting into the netherworld. The Russians just bitch slapped O-Blame-a regarding the missile defense system, Iran is one breath from making a nuke and you are focusing on Limbaugh?Its no ownder our country is in the shitter after 43 days of LibTardness!!!

  • CJ

    And another thing…In my red state family, I’m the Dem and everybody else is crazy. So, we’re talking politics at a family gathering, and my ever-so-witty brother pulls out the “anybody below thirty who votes Dem doesn’t have a heart, and anybody above thirty who votes Dem doesn’t have brain” line. Being above thirty, I took offense. His response? Don’t take it personally.I’m sorry Lee, but the “I didn’t mean you, Bob” approach doesn’t really fly.

  • TruthSerum

    >>MICHAEL MOORE’s appeal to his large listening audience is NOT primarily based on hate and bile and all the other negatives.HOLY SHIT!!! Lee, 90% of his listeners he up the hate and fear. Sorry.>>he’s got 20 million listeners who like MICHAEL MOORE because he’s FAT, IMPOTENT, and expresses a view of the world they see as HATEFUL, UNpatriotic and ANTI-business…especially small business.MICHAEL MOORE is not a smart man. His depth is very swallow. His target market is the swallow end of the gene pool and those without higher education. Yes, there are some exceptions but not many. Sorry.

  • Lee B.

    TruthSerum, you’re a fucking idiot. Our country was well into the shitter prior to Jan 20. But of course anyone with a functioning brain in their head knows that.Lee S., you can’t compare Limbaugh to Stern. For one thing, Stern actually IS funny (at times). Even when he’s making a point I disagree with, he can make me laugh. Secondly, Stern doesn’t take himself seriously and is self-deprecating. Limbaugh is just a pompous egomananiac who literally thinks he’s God’s gift to mankind.

  • TheNovak

    Okay, I just started reading this blog around a week ago and have been mostly lurking, but I’ve got to ask why everyone seems to dogpile on Lee whenever he brings up the idea that the opposition might actually have some redeeming qualities. He’s right. No matter what you, personally, think of Rush Limbaugh, the fact of the matter is that his listeners are strongly conservative and believe that what he’s preaching is good and patriotic. No matter how much of a vile scumbag you and I think he is, there are still people listening to him that think he has good ideas.There is nothing wrong, or weak, or stupid about recognizing and acknowledging that. If we refuse to try to see things from the other side’s point of view, how are we any better than the Republicans that oppressed us for the last decade?Additionally, all this bagging on Lee is making him seem like the Colmes to Bob’s Hannity. Do you really want us new readers to have that perception?

  • http://www.thenewwearsoff.com/ Kyle W.

    @TheNovak: perception is not reality. If you decide to make a judgment based on two weeks of observation, you’re not giving us a fair shake.I don’t think Limbaugh and the dittoheads are idiots because I haven’t taken a long look at their world-view; in fact, I think they’re a bunch of idiots primarily because of their world-view.Lee is inviting the dog piles. We (mostly) don’t levy personal attacks–I disagree with Lee often, but I like him and I value his input, since his viewpoint is to the right of me (but far to the left of Rush, of course).

  • Jeff

    howard stern has a loyal following but they don’t do what he tells them to, they don’t hate whom he orders them to, and they don’t vote the way he does. If rush had the same influence on his audience that howard does, ie a very minor one, that would be fine with me. but rush is dangerous, howard is just plain funny.

  • http://annette-justmylittlepieceoftheworld.blogspot.com/ Annette

    If Tweety is saying he is giving Limbaugh his hardball award tomorrow night.. that’s it I am done with him .. I will never watch it again.

  • AdyLeigh

    Annette, I will join you in being forever finished with Hardball, Sweetie. (I am in a very cuddly, lovey mood tonight b/c somebody very special put me there, so I will be affectionate with everyone to interject some love into this whole situation). Also, did you check out your blog? If so, what’s your answer to my question? I think that’s such a fascinating story, don’t you?

  • PaulSt.PaulMN

    I too have been “lurking”, reading this blog for several weeks. Here’s what finally caused me to make a post. I read an article in /Classicaly Liberal- here is the link:http://freestudents.blogspot.com/2007/05/grapes-of-math-global-warming-fraud.htmlIt would be nice if before commenting you could read the entire article, as only then can you answer my final question; if I possess a bias in myself that has slanted my interputation or caused me to miss something significant in this article that I should have caught and didn’t.I see it as fairly intelligently written, but it obviously does not necessarly support the popular view from contributors on this blog, but yet it seems to me to bring up very valid points for careful analysis. Someone from the, lets say the Limbaugh audience, brings up a point perhaps from this article, and they are immediatley labeled as well, you know what is said. I guess what I’m asking all to consider is that in at least on this one topic, do we really know what the truth really is? Believing what it is and knowing what it is are two different things. If someone has a different opinion, should we be so quick to characterize them so negatively? The other possiblity is that I don’t see or missed the bias in the article. I tried to read it objectivley, but I admit I could be subject to a bias I don’t see in myself. Thanks for listening.

  • kemstone

    While I continue to support Lee’s efforts to encourage a more civilised discourse in the liberal blogosphere, I just don’t see any possibility of a substantive debate over Rush Limbaugh’s IDEAS. The point made so well by several other commenters on this thread is that he HAS NO substantive ideas that can be seriously debated.Obama is a socialist. Liberals hate America. People who have diseases that stem-cell research might cure are faking it because they are bloodthirsty for human fetusses…I mean, come on!The most substantive idea he has is that poor people are poor because rich people pay too much taxes. We can debate THAT claim, but I doubt any Rush listeners have an argument to back it up.