Hope

Yglesias on a “good economy” versus a “promising economy”:

Reading Paul Krugman’s pushback against recent optimism about the economic situation it occurs to me that the whole debate over “green shoots” or “glimmers of hope” is a little bit mis-framed.

I think what everyone agrees on is that the situation is out of free fall mode and that’s good. This is basically what the green shoots amount to. But the metaphor of a green shoot implies not just something that’s good, but something that’s promising.

Later, he mentions something about attaining a level of growth that isn’t necessarily sustained by American consumer debt-spending. This got me to thinking about how things will be different, post-recession. I’m not so sure that things will, in fact, be all that different.

After 9/11, we all thought things would change — that Americans would somehow unify. In those days, we all looked back at media coverage of shark attacks, for example, and laughed at how culturally frivolous we had become. That was all going to change, we thought.

My point is that debt spending probably won’t change all that much. The economy depends upon consumer debt, whether we like it or not, and selling expensive crap to people who can’t really afford it is the cornerstone of 21st Century marketing, with or without a recession. And although I don’t have data to back this up, I seriously don’t believe that people who are being impacted by the recession are striving for a new and different way of living after it’s all over. I tend to believe that too many people are hungering for a return to the way it was before. The way that got us into trouble in the first place. I hope I’m very wrong.

This entry was posted in Economy and tagged , . Bookmark the permalink.
  • jenski42

    I hope you are wrong, too. (But I think you are right.) Somehow the “American Dream” has been translated to mean “you, too, can live like a rock star.”This is not to say that some people aren’t legitimately struggling…but for a long time I had coworkers make fun of me for having a savings account. No, seriously. They made fun of me because I was giving up having whatever I wanted in favor of putting some money away in case of an emergency.

  • reboot

    “I think what everyone agrees on is that the situation is out of free fall mode and that’s good.”No, Matt. The ‘lets move on and pretend no crimes occured’ bunch all agree. The honest economists say that is not so.You let Matt off very lightly, Bob.

  • Elvis the Dingeldein™

    You’re not wrong.I’m listening to Andrew Bacevich’s grim but compelling book The Limits of Power: The End of American Exceptionalism on my Em-Pee-Threes Device right now and if there’s one thing America simply hasn’t learned since the late 70s is how to quell its voracious appetite for Stuff.President Carter — who, in a distant future when Americans are re-Enlightened and can think with more than 0.05% of their Cheetos-dust-addled brains, will be considered light-years ahead of his time — destroyed his re-election chances by going on the Tee-Vees and begging Americans to do without, to conserve, to stop being such fucking gluttons. (This was dubbed the “Malaise Speech,” even though he never used that word.) Had Bush made precisely that same appeal on 9/12, we may have had a chance; we may have connected the dots, seen the ironies in the Hummer full of Saudi oil, and pulled up short of the abyss. Instead he urged us to go shopping, spend money we didn’t have, and expect fewer taxes in exchange for two futile wars.We are hungering for a return to the Voodoo Economics of the post-9/11 bubbles. We’d be Just Fine if Wall Street figured out a way to collateralize dog turds and fold them into insurable tranches made of dried Ebola Virus, as long as that meant our credit cards charged 28% instead of 35% and that 55” flatscreen was 10% off at The Wal-Marts.We need a massive crash to clean the books of faux prosperity. Because if there’s one thing at which we Americans absolutely excel, it’s not learning from our mistakes.

  • Elvis the Dingeldein™

    You know, stuff.

  • http://www.bobcesca.com Bob Cesca

    >>>You let Matt off very lightly, Bob.I don’t disagree with Matt. I believe we’re in the lower part of a U or an L recovery.I was just musing on debt spending based upon something Matt mentioned about it.

  • http://www.windonwater.net QueenTiye

    I don’t expect a massive change – but I do expect a slight maturation. With proper regulation, Americans won’t be “privileged” to debt themselves into the ground. So we will still be a consumer driven economy – and we’ll still plan on buying today something that will take us years to pay for – but the excesses will be checkedIf we add an educational overhaul that lets our children actually learn how the real world works, maybe we’ll see real change – just not dramatic change.QT

  • http://www.windonwater.net QueenTiye

    Elvis – thanks for the video link! LOL! That was wonderful. :) QT

  • http://www.colorado-yardening.com Peter

    It will change. I’m seeing it already. People are focusing on their needs now that they see all that stuff never did make them happy to begin with.One profound change I’m seeing all across Colorado started about 18 months ago: people growing their own food. Veggie seeds are hotter than hot. I know of a cactus and succulent nursery that dipped its toes into the veggie seeds market. They sold out within a month. They sold again this year.I think most people have woken up to the fact that Wall St. is and always has been nothing more than a con game, a way for the wealthy to scam our little bit of wealth from us. I think people see corporations, especially industrial agricultural corporations and the OTA as being willing participants in selling out our health.I think people are realizing that true organics can be had only from their local farmers. It’s more nutritious, therefore, healthier, therefore CSAs and farmers market will continue to boom.I plan to help them.

  • http://tarackian.deviantart.com J M Ashby

    I dont think you’re wrong Bob.Our culture is just way too damn materialistic to change overnight. Maybe 20 or 30 years from now our culture will be more focused on self improvement than self indulgement, but I dont think that will happen anytime before then if at all.I know too many people who judge how great their birthday was, for example, based on how big of a TV someone bought them. I know people who’s entire life success/fail outlook is based on what car they are driving.Do I know anyone that judges success based on knowledge? No one accept for maybe myself.

  • rogect8

    You’re not.

  • Ruth

    I don’t think you’re wrong either. Although we would probably all be better off if you were, at least in the respect that there needs to be some serious mindset shifting if we’re all to get through this. I’m reading Randy Charles Epping’s latest, The 21st Century Economy—A Beginner’s Guide right now, and have to it’s really helping me to understand just how much our economic mindset will have to change for things to get better.