Media and Torture and Iraq

I say they are fearful of an investigation because such an investigation could come dangerously close to the truth about 9/11 which the press also aided in covering up.After you really consider the fact that an administration of the united states ordered torture with the expressed intent of obtaining false information to justify a false war, then it no longer takes a very long stretch of the imagination to believe what else that administration could have been a part of.If they ordered torture while looking for a false link between Iraq and 9/11, and you consider the fact that Iraq was in the planning stages before Bush even took office, then one can only be lead to the possability (with a mountian of supporting evidence) that 9/11 was part of the plan to.You can label me a conspiracy theorist if you like, but thats where I see this whole road leading to. That is if someone doesn’t stop it before it gets there.Cheney and Kristol were both members of PNAC by the way.

They had decided to go into Iraq very early on – the war planning directives/timeline prove that. The torture to prove a link between AQ and uncle saddam was after tehy realized the WMD issue was fizzling. BTW, the intel services knew there wasn’t a connection, but that never stopped cheney, rummy, wolfowitz and their own personal intel factory.

I think they’re afraid of real investigation because they know they are complicit in letting torture happen.

It will be a day of reckoning if the case for the Iraq war was indeed proven to be a shame in a high court of law.This honestly makes me nervous. Most people thought Bush was an idiot. But most people do not believe that Bush truly orchestrated a series of events to lead us into the Iraq war based on lies and unsound evidence.This is starting to become even greater than Obama himself and if this keeps on growing the only way he would be able to stop it is with pardons.

I dont think Bush had a whole lot to do with it. I think Bush was simply an idiotic marionette puppeted by Cheney and Rumsfeld.I could be wrong but it sure has seemed that way all along.I can just imagine Bush going into a private room with Uncle Dick before a press conference and asking “dick, do we torture?” with a reply of “no no of course not” with a maniacal smirk on his face.

Project for the New American CenturyCheney, Kristol, Kagan, Perle, Rumsfeld, Rove, Wolfowitz, Scooter Libby, and Steve Forbes are just some of the fascists that were associated with this despicable organization.It’s not a conspiracy theory when the group’s plan was in plain sight for all to see as they boldly implemented it right before our eyes essentially right out in the open. You only have to look at the record to see that this is true. PNAC masterminded an invasion of Iraq exactly as they said they would.Study the list of names at the Wikipedia article. These people are part of a criminal conspiracy and should be brought to justice.

Git – Yeah its really not hidden at all. It doesn’t take a whole lot of effort to connect the dots either. It just simply isn’t mentioned by any media so most people have no idea about it.

I’m with you J M.The media doesn’t mention it because they are complicit. That is the crux of our predicament.How do we get the rest of the country to see the obvious truth that our News Media is controlled by a cabal of fascists that use their control to line the pockets of the already wealthy?

Question for everyone:The public seems to still be split on the release of the documents (link here).My questions are these:1). Wouldn’t the trial/hearing erode support for the President? I don’t see independents going on board? Thoughts?2). As brought up earlier, what happens if/when President Obama pardons Bush? I think it will be a necessity since having a former President go to jail would deal enormous damage to the country (domestically and internationally).

Actually I’d wager a lot of people already know that on some level. Most people I know, even the ones who dont really follow the news, do not trust the talking heads.The best solution is just getting more people to get their news online. As long as the internet remains a free speech zone, it is the best place for people to learn the truth and become educated. The internet bypasses all coporate lines and connects people directly to one another to share information.

ChrisK -1: According to the Washington Post, as of today sunday, Obamas approval is around 70% with 52% of independents approving.(I dont have a number to toss out but I would assume most true independents would support justice)2: If most of our suspcisions are correct and it was Darth Cheney and Rumsfeld behind the whole torture thing, there would be no need to pardon Bush.

Bush will go to a hospital. America doesn’t send the handicapped to jail.**(Unless they’re the brown and/or the poor.)

It appears that Bush was not a participant in the illegal activity. I’ve seen nothing that indicates that he was. This appears to be a Cheney-Rumsfeld-Libby and maybe Rove conspiracy.I don’t think Bush was in the loop at all. The lies he told were the lies he was told to tell.In any case, Presidents are not above the law. Law-breakers in the Oval Office should have never been pardoned. That was a serious mistake.

I agree with both of you regarding the openness of PNAC’s mission.I’ve been yammering about them on & off for a couple years now.You can go directly to PNAC’s website. Nothing there is very secretive.Their stated mission is “to promote American global leadership,” and one of their stated principles is “to promote American global leadership abroad.”Roughly translated, in other words, “American Imperialism.”Look at who the Chair of PNAC is: William Kristol.That should tell any thinking person all that they need to know.

All due respect, JM, but the only conspiracy behind 9/11 other than the al-Qaeda hijackers was the Bush administration’s conspiracy of incompetence in not paying attention to Richard Clarke and the variety of warnings.

Chris K. – table on who favors investigations into BushCo, from Jason Linkins’ recap of the Sunday morning talk shows today – in response to your question if investigations would erode support for Obama.

Bob – I’m sure you dont want your blog turned into a conspiracy debate, so I wont get into it any further, but I will say that there is mountains of evidence that suggest there was a whole lot more going on than just ignoring warnings.My point was that considering the revelation that torture was used to obtain false evidence to support a false war, then connecting the dots to other events is less of a jump.

Regarding the poll where merkins are split on the memo release, I’m actually surprised more don’t think it was wrong to do so. Why you ask? Well, we expect faux noise to warp the facts into a far right message, but the other news outlets have been doing the same thing. Not calling it torture and letting wingnuts say things like the release has made us less safe without questioning the statements.

Look at how the lone CNN reporter has been lambasted for asking tea party yahoos to explain the stupidity presented on their signs and by their statements.

Say, where has Richard Clarke been since the election? I would love to hear his take on these docs.

Thanks for the chart Chris.

Hey speaking of torture, you ever have a computer file for, say, a final project of some kind, spontaneously disappear while you were using it? I bring it up because I’ve been slamming my face into the wall since it happened, and I still have no useful intelligence on where the fuck it went.Oh well, back to the head slamming.

Bob,I wasn’t trying to say the Neo Conservatives are involved in some sort of hidden conspiracy.Far from it.I tend to discount “vast conspiracies,” because if more than a few people are involved, they simply tend to fall apart.The PNAC agenda, however, has been out in black & white there to see, starting during the Clinton administration.It’s just that many of us just weren’t paying much attention to them.Now, we must. The PNAC will not go away, and they are hell-bent on seeing their dreams realized.Although knowing that their Fearless Leader™ is Bill Kristol gives me some hope that their message MAY become little more than LOUD NOISES.

Wolfe -Kristol may have been the original instigator, but he was never the leader. It’s hard to way who the leader was because it was run more as a committee than anything thing else. If you insist on a leader I would point to Rumsfeld or Cheney.Their web site has been cleaned up from what it looked like in the 90s. I ran across it for the first time in 1998. The need to invade Iraq for a myriad of reasons none of which made any sense to a nonfascist asshole was described in great detail. I made the mistake of thinking that these clowns would never be in a position to act out their insane agenda. Boy was I wrong.I got to watch them do exactly what the NewAmericanCentury website said they would do. When I pointed this out to anyone I was a unamerican, unpatriotic, CONSPIRACY THEORIST.It’s not a theory when the conspiracy is working in front of you in broad daylight. The evidence needed to demonstrate the criminality is available to everyone now.When you want to discredit someone you call them a conspiracy theorist. This name no longer works in this case. PNAC is a real thing. PNAC did exactly what they said they would do in the mid 90s. We watched it happen exactly as they planned. You have to deny reality and the facts in front of your face to deny that this conspiracy is a farce.

* to deny that this conspiracy is real.

Say, where has Richard Clarke been since the election? I would love to hear his take on these docsSeems you’d have to watch ABC for that. Per our friend,Wiki, Clarke is currently Chairman of Good Harbor Consulting, a strategic planning and corporate risk management firm, an on-air consultant for ABC News, and a contributor to GoodHarborReport.com…He is an adjunct lecturer at the Harvard Kennedy School and a faculty affiliate of its Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs

that would explain why I haven’t seen him ceu, I don’t watch ABC. Since Peter Jennings died, I can’t watch them. I wish Martha Radditz would go back to NPR.