Who Would Jesus Torture?

I have to be honest; the whole crucifixion thing has always terrified me.When HE comes back, I don’t believe He’s going to appreciate that damn cross being worn around folks’ necks or their obsession with His execution.Another example of how much ‘Christians’ missed the damn point.(sigh)

This is why they are losing my generation.School teachers got a lot of my generation to leave there parents with evolution, the environment and DINOSAURS.Torture will be the tool of the next generation to leave their parents party.Thus, if racism, hate, torture, fear and teabagging are going to be the party platform than it will not be a national party. Hopefully, not even a regional party.

Pray tell – Mel.

Its because they have spent their entire life being indoctrined and they are absolutely horrified of dying to a terrorist and having to pay for their phony sins. They’re actually more likely to die driving their cars, but im sure Fox News has assured them that terrorists are the ultimate enemy.The whole depicition of christ on a cross is just about more fear and control and impressionism. No one wants to end up like him so they make their donations and drink the communion grape juice. They don’t really like going to church, they are just afraid not to because they’ve been taught their whole life that someone else is going to judge them when they die. The suggestion that we actually just judge ourselves has probably never entered their mind.They should take a page from George Carlin and start using Buddy Christ instead.

We should stop talking about torture and start talking about the murders. I want to see how the Jesus Freaks rationalize murder. Who would Jesus murder?For the people that still think that waterboarding is not torture so the Bush Administration did nothing wrong and was only keeping us safe.HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT MURDER AND UNLAWFUL DEATH.Nearly 100 detainees were murdered or killed. Others ‘disappeared.’ Thirty-Four detainees were clearly murdered by strangulation, beaten to death, or kicked to death.This was done to “keep us safe.”The Bush Administration are clearly war criminals. This sounds more and more like the Gestapo in operation. Details at BuzzFlash.I want to see Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bybee and Yoo in prison where these criminals belong. There is no doubt that these people are dangerous criminals.

surprise, surprise: Increased church attendance is directly related to immorality.

Hey man, the faithful turned out in droves to watch a guy being tortured to death for two-and-a-half hours and literally called it a religious experience. I give you, the inexplicable popularity of The Last Temptation of Christ.Those people are fucking nuts — and they obviously don’t have an aversion to others’ suffering.

I know this is a little off-topic, but reading Bob’s statementof being a former catholic made me think of it.

I’m marrying a catholic lady (but don’t hold that against her- she’s quite cool), and since I left the catholic church manyyears ago, she needed to get a "dispensation" from thechurch to marry a non-catholic. No big deal, it’s just fillingout a form. But then they realize that I’ve never"officially left the church through a formal act",which I need to do before she can get the dispensation. To dothis, I notify my baptismal church that I left the church, andthey update my baptismal record, thereby making it official. Doneand done. The phrase they used to denote my status?"Defected". I have officially defected fromthe Catholic church. Nice word choice.

I guess I should be glad I wasn’t Muslim, because then I’d bedeclared apostate instead of defector, which would make it openseason on my head.

Sorry — meant The Passion of the Christ. It’s Friday, so, you know, I’m kinda high.

Bob – in answer to this question:

Christ’s death isn’t so much the point as his resurrection, no?

– yes.The empty tomb would have been a better symbol of the triumph of life (in Christ) over death. I would point out that this pov is one held by some Christians already – some shrink in horror from the Crucifix as a matter of faith. I offer that by way of suggesting that one’s search for God often takes one out of the house (of faith) in which one was born.The belief that everyone who is outside of a peculiar belief is hellbound is a belief that encourages inhumanity to others. I don’t usually criticize belief systems, because I believe all the religions are one – springing from one Divine source. I ALSO believe that humanity consistently diverts the teachings of the prophets to their own ends – with the negative results such as we see here.Christians believe torture is ok in some cases, because they presume it will be perpetuated against non-Christians.QT

The first question that comes to my mind is what percentage of these folks answered this question with an opinion based on knowledge of the Geneva Conventions and the Conventions Against Torture?I think Jesus would torture right-wing logic and the DEMOCRATS who can’t wait to join them in the mythical political center.

No matter how much I practiced I couldn’t quite get the hang of it………

S.R. Git,

Does proof exist of the murders, like it does for the abuse?If I recall, the lunatics on the right denied there was any abusegoing on too, until the photos were produced. And then of coursethey could no longer deny that abuse took place, so they arguedwhether or not it was torture. Now that it has been officiallyproven to be torture, they fall back on the oldie-but-goody, thatthere is no problem torturing people (at least dark folks and liberals).

So anyway, I assume that they will repeat the cycle byclaiming that there were no murders. That’s why I ask if proof(like photos) exists. If it does, then they will deny that those people are really dead ("they’re just pining for the fjords").And once we prove that yes indeed, it was murder, then we’ll havethe same thing we have now: ’48% of Americans think that murderis sometimes or often times acceptable’. More if you go tochurch.

while I enjoy a good christian bashing as well as the next guy, I think this is a case of correlation not implying causation.people who go to church, in general, and especially evangelical churches, are more likely to be republican, making them more likely to accept torture.

Maybe I’ve just been to rocking Catholic churches my whole life, but no one I’ve interacted with has reveled in the torture. Just this Easter, the priest emphasized the whole “Christ was tortured to death” thing over and over again in his sermon, in a way that clearly said “and please to remember, that sucked.” I’ve always taken the crucifix as a symbol of the suffering of all people. In other words, yes Christ rose and we can all be saved, but please to remember things still suck for a lot of folks now, so try and do something about that too.But again, I’ve lived in fairly liberal towns, so maybe my priests have taken a…different view than, say, Pope Nazipants. I would be curious to see this broken down between types of churchgoers. Not all Christians are built alike.Also, what QT said. They assume that they willnot be the ones tortured (just like they are horrified that the DOJ could possibly think people like THEM are a danger) so it’s no skin off their backs. Literally.

QT -My observation is that if more people practiced their faith the way you do, the world would be a much kinder place.Thank you Madam.You give me hope for the future.

In a recent survey of Pastafarians, 100% surveyed said they believed torturing was justified if it led to the capture of more booty. ARRRRRRGGGHHH matey!

“Does proof exist of the murders?”How about atleast a million dead Iraqis? “official” government figures put the number of dead Iraqis at around 200k, but if you ask the human rights organizations and health organizations they say atleast or more than a million.

The defining symbol of my spirituality may borrow directly from a religious work of art (you’d be pressed to find any religious-er) but, thank his noodliness, it’s not so horriffic. Who wants to live with such an aweful image of oppression as a reminder of their spirituality?!It’s just nuts!

I’m pretty sure that The Jesus™ would happily torture Pat Robertson.After all, for decades Robertson’s been twisting the shit out of everything The Jesus™ ever said.

Drummer Doug -Wilkerson testified to congress that he was witness to detainees being kicked to death. He also mentioned unlawful deaths when he spoke on the Rachel Maddow show. The exact number of deaths is hard to establish. Most were ‘documented’ as suicides but the medical records indicate that the ‘detainee’ died from blunt trauma from being kicked or beaten.I’m not aware of many people committing suicide by kicking themselves to death. There appears to be enough evidence to establish that unlawful deaths occurred. The exact number may never be known.The BuzzFlash article I linked to contains links to many sources for the claims. It appears to me that there is more than enough known already to start an investigation. It isn’t just smoke, we have eyewitness testimony.

I too would be interested to see the break-down of they survey by religion. I went to a Jesuit high school and when the priests weren’t trying to get me to play hide the weasel with them in the rectory (I kid) they were preaching social justice. I never heard a priest argue that murder or torture were justified in any case.But, that school also tended to focus on the gospels and the teachings of Jesus. Unlike most christian religions in the United States which tend to forget those four books and teach the story of Jesus and Moses conquering the Romans using AK-47s.

In defense of Christianity, many denominations do not have sculptures/paintings of Jesus on the cross everywhere as the Roman Catholics do. The Lutherans for instance (the faith I grew up in) have plain crosses, to symbolize that death wasn’t the end (or the point). Some denominations don’t use crosses or Jesus on the cross in their imagery at all. The Catholics, however, tend to be on the gruesome side.I have no defense of those in the pews who defend torture.

According to the report:”White evangelical Protestants were the religious group most likely to say torture is often or sometimes justified — more than six in 10 supported it. People unaffiliated with any religious organization were least likely to back it. Only four in 10 of them did.”Also,”The religious group most likely to say torture is never justified was Protestant denominations — such as Episcopalians, Lutherans and Presbyterians — categorized as “mainline” Protestants, in contrast to evangelicals. Just over three in 10 of them said torture is never justified.”Not … surprised.

BTW, found this on CNN.com

I just drove by a Baptist church that had a display of Noah’s Ark and dinosaurs!!Seriously, when I was growing up Catholic, the Jews (of that time) were blamed for the horrific death of Christ.So why is it OK to torture others? And whose religion is not standing up and saying NO to these horrible acts done by Americans.I would also like to see it broken down by religionsWhere did that whole Do unto others…. go?That’s in the bible too.

Thanks for the additional info, Git. I’m glad that you didn’tmisinterpret my question as if I was questioning the murdersmyself, as Ashby seems to have done.

The problem is that in order to get these crimes into thenational discourse, the evidence needs to be overwhelming beforethe MSM even allows it to be brought up for argument. But as Isaid earlier, the right-wingers will only find a way to justifyit anyway, once they can no longer deny that it ever happened.

But Lord, Lord, haven’t we done many wonderful things in your name?I never knew you! Depart from me you who practice iniquity

Silly: You are kind. Thank you. I like this thread, and hope it offers everyone the chance to consider that much of what passes for religion in America is politics wearing scripture as a fig leaf… and that with effort, more faithful venues for the practice of knowledge of self and God may be found…QT

Years ago, I had a Catholic friend…a very good friend. She wore a crucifix necklace. One day I said to her, “You know that he ‘has risen’ (in my best and very insincere Born Again voice), and isn’t on the Cross anymore, right?” She looked at me like I had 3 heads, then said “Yes, but the silver in this is worth alot of money!!” We both admitted to our shallowness and resumed our conversation about what a bitch the neighbor was…I now realize that our conversation is probably played out a kazillion times by born agains. The difference is that we were able to laugh, move on and still keep our own personal faith for many years to come.

I think that “turn the other cheek” has got to be very high on the (incredibly lengthy) list of things in the Bible that Christians ignore. Luckily, their holy book is one giant contradiction, so they can easily rationalize their way out of it.What rules do they choose to follow when it comes to their own obligations to god? Why, the New Testament of course – it’s easy! Just love god, and love each other! Nevermind all the rest of those burdensome rules from the old book!But when it comes to stuff they’re allowed to do to other people? Well, it’s no big deal if they want to eradicate and/or torture a bunch of brown people, because the Old Testament version of god did stuff like that all the time. He was a wrathful SOB, so whatever violent impulses we want to carry out are justified. Nevermind all that pansy “turn the other cheek” crap Jesus taught using both his words and actions.Godammit, I do hates me some religion.

I’m a practicing Catholic (practicing because I still have not perfected it–ha).I’ve always felt Jesus on the cross was a symbol to us to always remember the sacrifice that Jesus made for us.However, many Catholic churches these days ARE focusing more on Jesus the Resurrection with Jesus on the cross to the side of the altar and Jesus the Risen in the center of the church. New churches are being built this way.

“Just one of many unanswered questions that drove me from the ranks of organized religion.”

Bob, is one of the other reasons the fact that god doesn’t actually exist, and we in fact evolved from single cell organisms over billions of years rather than being crafted by a superbeing in outerspace just 6,000 or so years ago?

Also, I wonder what percentage of practicing Catholics support the use of torture? I’m guessing here, but I bet most of the Christian torture lovers come from the ranks of churches with names like “the church of the one true god,” not the Catholic church. You know, the evangelicals. They love torture.