Abortion Exceptions

They don’t care about women other than as an object to be owned/controlled. As far as they are concerned all a woman is is an incubator with no right to self-determination.

They don’t care about women other than as an object to be owned/controlled. As far as they are concerned all a woman is is an incubator with no right to self-determination.

I would agree with you, Bob.But I think we do a disservice to those, like me, whose biggest argument against abortion isn’t the exceptions, but rather the norms. If there was not so much activity in the area of “oops, I just got pregnant…better have that abortion”, this issue wouldn’t even be an issue for most people.I don’t know if there will ever be an answer to this issue; but I do know that as long as we label and demonize our opponents when discussing this issue, the hope for a solution is absolutely non-existent.

I would agree with you, Bob.But I think we do a disservice to those, like me, whose biggest argument against abortion isn’t the exceptions, but rather the norms. If there was not so much activity in the area of “oops, I just got pregnant…better have that abortion”, this issue wouldn’t even be an issue for most people.I don’t know if there will ever be an answer to this issue; but I do know that as long as we label and demonize our opponents when discussing this issue, the hope for a solution is absolutely non-existent.

But I think we do a disservice to those, like me, whose biggest argument against abortion isn’t the exceptions, but rather the norms.

PPP, here’s a newsflash: IT ISN’T ABOUT YOU!You don’t believe in abortion or think it’s wrong or think it’s murder, don’t have one. Want an answer? Here it is: there is a separation of church and state in the U.S. Defining a fetus as a child because it has a soul is purely based on religious doctrine which has no place in politics and law.The right wing wants to limit sex education, limit access to contraception (such as the morning after pill), teach kids that abstinence is the only acceptable method for birth control, and then limit their options should they become pregnant. If you’re christian, get pregnant, and have an abortion, you’re a murderer who’s going to hell. If you decide to have the baby, wonderful! Now you’re facing being an outcast from your parents because you had pre-marital sex making you a sinner, or you’re 18 or 19 (probably with little more than a high school education), faced the prospect of raising a child on your own. On top that once the baby is born the right wing wants to limit your access to health care (because you likely won’t have a job that provides health care), limit your access to state assistance, and if you happen to have a job, you’re required to go back to work after 12 weeks and pay $1000/month for day care.Yes, I am making some broad assumptions about who has abortions, but I’m will to bet that quite a few abortions are for women between 15 and 25 who don’t have the means to support themselves and a child.Oh that’s right, according to the right they shouldn’t be having sex because they can’t handle the consequences of their actions.Bob doesn’t do any disservice to you because, once again, it isn’t about you in the least.

But I think we do a disservice to those, like me, whose biggest argument against abortion isn’t the exceptions, but rather the norms.

PPP, here’s a newsflash: IT ISN’T ABOUT YOU!You don’t believe in abortion or think it’s wrong or think it’s murder, don’t have one. Want an answer? Here it is: there is a separation of church and state in the U.S. Defining a fetus as a child because it has a soul is purely based on religious doctrine which has no place in politics and law.The right wing wants to limit sex education, limit access to contraception (such as the morning after pill), teach kids that abstinence is the only acceptable method for birth control, and then limit their options should they become pregnant. If you’re christian, get pregnant, and have an abortion, you’re a murderer who’s going to hell. If you decide to have the baby, wonderful! Now you’re facing being an outcast from your parents because you had pre-marital sex making you a sinner, or you’re 18 or 19 (probably with little more than a high school education), faced the prospect of raising a child on your own. On top that once the baby is born the right wing wants to limit your access to health care (because you likely won’t have a job that provides health care), limit your access to state assistance, and if you happen to have a job, you’re required to go back to work after 12 weeks and pay $1000/month for day care.Yes, I am making some broad assumptions about who has abortions, but I’m will to bet that quite a few abortions are for women between 15 and 25 who don’t have the means to support themselves and a child.Oh that’s right, according to the right they shouldn’t be having sex because they can’t handle the consequences of their actions.Bob doesn’t do any disservice to you because, once again, it isn’t about you in the least.

Bravo Sierradrinker. I agree with everything you said. The decision is between the woman and her doctor. Many people do not believe life begins with a twinkle in poppa’s eye. For those who do, nobody is forcing them to abort.

Bravo Sierradrinker. I agree with everything you said. The decision is between the woman and her doctor. Many people do not believe life begins with a twinkle in poppa’s eye. For those who do, nobody is forcing them to abort.

Bob,I’m glad you label the group as ‘anti-abortion’ as opposed to the misnomer ‘pro-life.’ I’m pro-life, but it isn’t my place to deter a woman’s right to choose. Pro-life, to me, should mean ‘let’s provide for the kids that are alive and need our help.’ It certainly doesn’t include killing doctors or blowing up their clinics.

Bob,I’m glad you label the group as ‘anti-abortion’ as opposed to the misnomer ‘pro-life.’ I’m pro-life, but it isn’t my place to deter a woman’s right to choose. Pro-life, to me, should mean ‘let’s provide for the kids that are alive and need our help.’ It certainly doesn’t include killing doctors or blowing up their clinics.

Anti-choice folks seem to also make an exception when they or their daughters are the ones in need of the abortion.sigh.I’m sick of this shit and I’m at a point in life where (fingers crossed) an unexpected pregnancy will no longer be a issue.We are not a walking fetus incubators.I can’t be compelled to give someone a kidney anymore then I should have to give over my bodily autonomy to support a fetus.To me the rights of the live human woman will always trump a fetus.I should never, ever be compelled by the laws of this country to carry a pregnancy to term, to do so would be a return to a form of subjugation that says women are just a “thing”.I should not be forced to go all the way to Kansas to get a late term therapeutic abortion that may save my life.Pregnancy should not be used as a way to “slut shame” women, to control our sexuality or as a way to make us “pay the consequences” for being sexually active.Comprehensive sex education and free birth control will do way more to lower the abortion rate then shaming or anti-choice protests outside clinics ever will. Actually supporting mothers and their children instead of calling for an end to welfare programs would do more to stop abortion.

Anti-choice folks seem to also make an exception when they or their daughters are the ones in need of the abortion.sigh.I’m sick of this shit and I’m at a point in life where (fingers crossed) an unexpected pregnancy will no longer be a issue.We are not a walking fetus incubators.I can’t be compelled to give someone a kidney anymore then I should have to give over my bodily autonomy to support a fetus.To me the rights of the live human woman will always trump a fetus.I should never, ever be compelled by the laws of this country to carry a pregnancy to term, to do so would be a return to a form of subjugation that says women are just a “thing”.I should not be forced to go all the way to Kansas to get a late term therapeutic abortion that may save my life.Pregnancy should not be used as a way to “slut shame” women, to control our sexuality or as a way to make us “pay the consequences” for being sexually active.Comprehensive sex education and free birth control will do way more to lower the abortion rate then shaming or anti-choice protests outside clinics ever will. Actually supporting mothers and their children instead of calling for an end to welfare programs would do more to stop abortion.

I oppose legislating exceptions as well.IIRC, the Court’s decision in Roe hinged on privacy. Privacy still matters regardless what trimester it is, or whether the pregnancy is the result of rape or incest.The government needs to stay the hell out of reproductive choices.

I oppose legislating exceptions as well.IIRC, the Court’s decision in Roe hinged on privacy. Privacy still matters regardless what trimester it is, or whether the pregnancy is the result of rape or incest.The government needs to stay the hell out of reproductive choices.

How would these exceptions work? Would there be an entirely new abortion court set up to decide who was justified in seeking an abortion? How would we prove rape or incest? What would the burden of proof be? How would we process evidence fast enough to ensure that the abortion could be performed in time? Would the judges be doctors?It’s in asking questions like this that I have convinced anti-choice friends that “exceptions” wouldn’t work at all. It’s hard enough to prove rape in court. Women would be forced to bear their rapists’ babies because there is no way a court could act in time. Let alone intervene in time if a woman’s life was in danger. Exceptions can’t “work.” Abortion has to be safe, legal, and accessible for everyone. Period. And if we want them to be rare, we have to work through education and contraception access and prenatal care.

How would these exceptions work? Would there be an entirely new abortion court set up to decide who was justified in seeking an abortion? How would we prove rape or incest? What would the burden of proof be? How would we process evidence fast enough to ensure that the abortion could be performed in time? Would the judges be doctors?It’s in asking questions like this that I have convinced anti-choice friends that “exceptions” wouldn’t work at all. It’s hard enough to prove rape in court. Women would be forced to bear their rapists’ babies because there is no way a court could act in time. Let alone intervene in time if a woman’s life was in danger. Exceptions can’t “work.” Abortion has to be safe, legal, and accessible for everyone. Period. And if we want them to be rare, we have to work through education and contraception access and prenatal care.

As a women who delivered a child prematurely and removed my son from total support care because he had not hope of living and was in horrible distress, I sympathize with those who need a late term abortion. These are not done lightly or without lots of sorrow and distress. I know 2 women who had late term abortions because of fetal problems. They were devastated.Why do these religious terrorists think they know what is right for others? And why are the loudest and most violent, men?Is this an issue more of control then of what is best for a mother?What is being done by the religious right in this issue is terrorism.

As a women who delivered a child prematurely and removed my son from total support care because he had not hope of living and was in horrible distress, I sympathize with those who need a late term abortion. These are not done lightly or without lots of sorrow and distress. I know 2 women who had late term abortions because of fetal problems. They were devastated.Why do these religious terrorists think they know what is right for others? And why are the loudest and most violent, men?Is this an issue more of control then of what is best for a mother?What is being done by the religious right in this issue is terrorism.

Sierradrinker,I don’t define a fetus based on any religious definition. I define it based on what I KNOW it is, a growing human being. Currently, you have no evidence whatsoever to disprove that.Nice try at demagoguery, though. I salute you.You are right, though, this issue isn’t about me; it’s about something much more important. I agree with you that many of the abortions are probably due to 16-25 year olds who cannot afford to raise the child themselves. Sadly, this is an issue we can rectify, but we don’t utilize the human spirit of charity and goodwill to do so.That we are forcing young people to look at abortion as the best possible alternative is our crime. I’m ashamed that we haven’t provided better alternatives. But the cause of this problem isn’t the sex, and it isn’t the pregnancy. It’s our failure as a species to provide an environment where a young woman can feel safe and secure in raising a child she never planned for, and where she will know that she isn’t sacrificing her future to do so.

Sierradrinker,I don’t define a fetus based on any religious definition. I define it based on what I KNOW it is, a growing human being. Currently, you have no evidence whatsoever to disprove that.Nice try at demagoguery, though. I salute you.You are right, though, this issue isn’t about me; it’s about something much more important. I agree with you that many of the abortions are probably due to 16-25 year olds who cannot afford to raise the child themselves. Sadly, this is an issue we can rectify, but we don’t utilize the human spirit of charity and goodwill to do so.That we are forcing young people to look at abortion as the best possible alternative is our crime. I’m ashamed that we haven’t provided better alternatives. But the cause of this problem isn’t the sex, and it isn’t the pregnancy. It’s our failure as a species to provide an environment where a young woman can feel safe and secure in raising a child she never planned for, and where she will know that she isn’t sacrificing her future to do so.

Abortion is a sad option. I consider myself pro-choice because I don’t feel I have the right to insert myself between a woman and her doctor. Thus the Govt who represents me, doesn’t have that right either.I have known women who get sleep around and get pregnant repeatedly, and then get abortions. These women are RARE, thank goodness! The majority of women have it for medical reasons or because they cannot care for the child.The Rights failure to provide other options (including a viable Adoption system) and to encourage birth control along with personal responsibility is the ultimate stupidity. By letting their religious beliefs drive public policy and by us letting them drive the issue, we’re going to end up with a huge mess on our hands. The middle needs to take back the steering wheel.

Abortion is a sad option. I consider myself pro-choice because I don’t feel I have the right to insert myself between a woman and her doctor. Thus the Govt who represents me, doesn’t have that right either.I have known women who get sleep around and get pregnant repeatedly, and then get abortions. These women are RARE, thank goodness! The majority of women have it for medical reasons or because they cannot care for the child.The Rights failure to provide other options (including a viable Adoption system) and to encourage birth control along with personal responsibility is the ultimate stupidity. By letting their religious beliefs drive public policy and by us letting them drive the issue, we’re going to end up with a huge mess on our hands. The middle needs to take back the steering wheel.