Prime Time Thread

*whistling*Monday night and ain’t got nobody..

*whistling*Monday night and ain’t got nobody..

I know, I know.. it’s actually saturday night

I know, I know.. it’s actually saturday night

I’ll just say here – good for QT on her numerous posts. I have too much testosterone to not get too rankled at intolerance posing as liberalism. For reals.

I’ll just say here – good for QT on her numerous posts. I have too much testosterone to not get too rankled at intolerance posing as liberalism. For reals.

If liberalism precludes me from mocking the silliness of another person’s superstitions, then you can already count me out.

If liberalism precludes me from mocking the silliness of another person’s superstitions, then you can already count me out.

Lee,I don’t know whether or not you believe that I’m “passing myself off” as a liberal… but I’m very intolerant of intolerance, and it has nothing to do with my testosterone level.

Lee,I don’t know whether or not you believe that I’m “passing myself off” as a liberal… but I’m very intolerant of intolerance, and it has nothing to do with my testosterone level.

Sullivan on KO tonight

Sullivan on KO tonight

Why is it that when non-religious people disagree with those who claim they have faith, it is labeled intolerance?Every time religion rears its ugly head here, there seems to be a group that insists (in shaded, nuanced terms) that somehow they’re being picked on for their beliefs, that the big mean liberals are intolerant.Okay, we get it. and we don’t want to discuss it – it’s a non-productive exercise. Personally, I get VERY impatient with virtual strangers who defend their faith or their right to have faith. I don’t give a shit what anyone else believes. (is that tolerance or intolerance??) Religion, or lack thereof, is personal – keep it to yourself.

Why is it that when non-religious people disagree with those who claim they have faith, it is labeled intolerance?Every time religion rears its ugly head here, there seems to be a group that insists (in shaded, nuanced terms) that somehow they’re being picked on for their beliefs, that the big mean liberals are intolerant.Okay, we get it. and we don’t want to discuss it – it’s a non-productive exercise. Personally, I get VERY impatient with virtual strangers who defend their faith or their right to have faith. I don’t give a shit what anyone else believes. (is that tolerance or intolerance??) Religion, or lack thereof, is personal – keep it to yourself.

Well said, CEU.

Well said, CEU.

Religion is one of the most contentious topics ever. Always has been. That’s one of the reasons I stay away from it.As CEU says, it should really be a personal thing, and only shared if 2 parties agree to share. Other than that, tempers usually flare.

Religion is one of the most contentious topics ever. Always has been. That’s one of the reasons I stay away from it.As CEU says, it should really be a personal thing, and only shared if 2 parties agree to share. Other than that, tempers usually flare.

Thank you.And in other news, the Supplemental Appropriations Bill for 2009, H.R. 2346, contains an amendment, Sec. 1305, which would make the Sec. of Defense & the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs the final arbiters of what photos of detainees can be released to the public, regardless of what the courts say. All they have to say is that making the photos public would endanger an American citizen or a member of the US military (interesting distinction there), which EVERY photo could potentially do. It’s an end run around the FOIA – which was passed for a reason! – and is unacceptable!The text of the bill is here. Section 1305 is very near the bottom of the bill.

Thank you.And in other news, the Supplemental Appropriations Bill for 2009, H.R. 2346, contains an amendment, Sec. 1305, which would make the Sec. of Defense & the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs the final arbiters of what photos of detainees can be released to the public, regardless of what the courts say. All they have to say is that making the photos public would endanger an American citizen or a member of the US military (interesting distinction there), which EVERY photo could potentially do. It’s an end run around the FOIA – which was passed for a reason! – and is unacceptable!The text of the bill is here. Section 1305 is very near the bottom of the bill.

Is that the Lieberman/Lindsay amendment?

Is that the Lieberman/Lindsay amendment?

“Never discuss religion or politics in polite company.”I just figured if we’re doing the latter, then polite company has already gone out of the window.

“Never discuss religion or politics in polite company.”I just figured if we’re doing the latter, then polite company has already gone out of the window.

well, the “polite company” part is in question too Kyle…lol But yes, I do see your point..lol

well, the “polite company” part is in question too Kyle…lol But yes, I do see your point..lol

Yes, AnnetteKyle – or surgeries.

Yes, AnnetteKyle – or surgeries.

This is not the place nor the time Truth Serum or whatever you want to call yourself.

This is not the place nor the time Truth Serum or whatever you want to call yourself.

You could try.. but I doubt that you are man enough. I don’t much rugs.. I don’t need to I leave that to scum suckers like you.

You could try.. but I doubt that you are man enough. I don’t much rugs.. I don’t need to I leave that to scum suckers like you.

you’re a compete dick, serum. Everything Tiller did was legal. Torturing prisoners is not.Why don’t you go tell a woman whose fetus has no brain stem that she has to carry that fetus to term, knowing it will die immediately, because aborting it offends your religion. then go fuck yourself.

you’re a compete dick, serum. Everything Tiller did was legal. Torturing prisoners is not.Why don’t you go tell a woman whose fetus has no brain stem that she has to carry that fetus to term, knowing it will die immediately, because aborting it offends your religion. then go fuck yourself.

TS, you have no idea. You are fucking clueless. Why don’t you crawl back into Michelle Malkin’s vagina and go away.Bob, this goes too far. Can we do something about this? I love you and I love this place, but this kind of trollery is too much.

TS, you have no idea. You are fucking clueless. Why don’t you crawl back into Michelle Malkin’s vagina and go away.Bob, this goes too far. Can we do something about this? I love you and I love this place, but this kind of trollery is too much.

“Tiller the Baby Killer.” A nickname that was richly earned. How you and Dr. Mengele getting along, Dr. Tiller?

“Tiller the Baby Killer.” A nickname that was richly earned. How you and Dr. Mengele getting along, Dr. Tiller?

I don’t think Jesus would approve of the TS crudeness and attacks. I think it’s time it gets 86ed.TS, there is no hell, you only come back in the next life to try to do a better job at attaining higher consciousness. Somebody screwed up when they let you come back as a human. I believe your next step will be backwards perhaps as a tapeworm.

I don’t think Jesus would approve of the TS crudeness and attacks. I think it’s time it gets 86ed.TS, there is no hell, you only come back in the next life to try to do a better job at attaining higher consciousness. Somebody screwed up when they let you come back as a human. I believe your next step will be backwards perhaps as a tapeworm.

Intolerance posing at liberalism? Too much testosterone? Maybe your head is just too far up your ass? You know thats just like how any critisism of Israel gets labeled as anti-semitism regardless of the topic. You label debating the merits of religion as intolerance. Go ahead, play the victim. You won’t get any sympathy from me personally.You’re right to praise QT though, she is a hell of a lot better at approaching a topic gracefully. You begin by making comments which you know will be divisive and explosive and then proceed to get combative after what you knew was going to happen… happens.As for ShitSerum/DoucheSerum, its too bad you weren’t aborted by your mother. You obviously contribute nothing positive to society.

Intolerance posing at liberalism? Too much testosterone? Maybe your head is just too far up your ass? You know thats just like how any critisism of Israel gets labeled as anti-semitism regardless of the topic. You label debating the merits of religion as intolerance. Go ahead, play the victim. You won’t get any sympathy from me personally.You’re right to praise QT though, she is a hell of a lot better at approaching a topic gracefully. You begin by making comments which you know will be divisive and explosive and then proceed to get combative after what you knew was going to happen… happens.As for ShitSerum/DoucheSerum, its too bad you weren’t aborted by your mother. You obviously contribute nothing positive to society.

Come, now, let us not be intolerant of these trolls.

Come, now, let us not be intolerant of these trolls.

O’Reilly claims that Tiller performed 60K abortions. That would be more than 4 a day EVERY DAY including, yes even Christmas, since Roe v Wade was decided. Exaggerate much?

I’ve stumbled into the bizarre, it seems! I can’t see Truth Serum, but s/he is obviously stirring up the waters as usual. I believe I’ll just stumble back out.

I’ve stumbled into the bizarre, it seems! I can’t see Truth Serum, but s/he is obviously stirring up the waters as usual. I believe I’ll just stumble back out.

I told Greg @ Plum Line earlier today, and have mentioned it to everyone else, Dr Tiller was more than an Abortion Dr. as he is called by the media so often. That is what they seem to want to call him.That’s not what his license says. He was an MD, and his practice was for OB/GYN, he did so much more and it is sad that they think that’s how they have to define him.

vyccan: the post was deleted by Bob. I can’t see it either. nice to see you back, by the way!I wrote a (hopefully) pretty good piece on late term abortion at my blog today – just click on my name.

vyccan: the post was deleted by Bob. I can’t see it either. nice to see you back, by the way!I wrote a (hopefully) pretty good piece on late term abortion at my blog today – just click on my name.

vyccan, Serum’s posts have been deleted.

vyccan, Serum’s posts have been deleted.

Bill O’Reilly is a propaganda spewer and a knowledge sewer. His relationship to facts is like his relationship to women. Both avoid him like the plague.Sorry I missed Twat Serum. I was watching Valkyrie. Bryan Singers scores again. Very good film in spite of shorty who actually did a fine job.

Bill O’Reilly is a propaganda spewer and a knowledge sewer. His relationship to facts is like his relationship to women. Both avoid him like the plague.Sorry I missed Twat Serum. I was watching Valkyrie. Bryan Singers scores again. Very good film in spite of shorty who actually did a fine job.

Probably the best comment on the murder of Dr George Tiller was posted on Sadly, No! by Major Kong (credit where it’s due): “Even the mob has the decency not to whack you in church.”

Probably the best comment on the murder of Dr George Tiller was posted on Sadly, No! by Major Kong (credit where it’s due): “Even the mob has the decency not to whack you in church.”

silly: I wanted to see that, but I couldn’t stop giggling at the trailer clip of Cruise spatting that we must kill Hitler.

silly: I wanted to see that, but I couldn’t stop giggling at the trailer clip of Cruise spatting that we must kill Hitler.

Alopecia.. someone else said something to that effect earlier today too. Can’t remember where I saw it..

Alopecia.. someone else said something to that effect earlier today too. Can’t remember where I saw it..

Stopping in to say thank you to Lee and Silly and JM and Dan and everyone who said something kind about me today. It means a lot to me.QT

Stopping in to say thank you to Lee and Silly and JM and Dan and everyone who said something kind about me today. It means a lot to me.QT

Talibangelicals think that whacking you in a church gives it that touch of divine justice.What until God informs them that they are wrong and that he hates stupid fuckwits as much as I do.

Talibangelicals think that whacking you in a church gives it that touch of divine justice.What until God informs them that they are wrong and that he hates stupid fuckwits as much as I do.

I have a problem with political labels. If you are a Liberal, does that mean you have to toe an inflexible party line?Most people here are pretty damn left wing, but have lots of differing opinions and values. I have ideas that are very lefty fringe, some very extreme anti religion thoughts that I mostly keep to myself, some very conventional values, and even a couple of conservative ideals.I do think that people have a right to their opinions, and I really like a civilized debate. What has happened in the last fifteen years in our country has been an end of civility and rational discourse. The loudmouth, left wing, grubby extremists of the 60s and early 70′s have been replaced by the right wing loudmouth extremists in suits.Even though I would like to see a much more radical change in the way our country is operating, and I have grown sick of the Right, I am glad we have a president who is rational, intelligent and has brought so many people together to try to heal the damage that has been done.

I have a problem with political labels. If you are a Liberal, does that mean you have to toe an inflexible party line?Most people here are pretty damn left wing, but have lots of differing opinions and values. I have ideas that are very lefty fringe, some very extreme anti religion thoughts that I mostly keep to myself, some very conventional values, and even a couple of conservative ideals.I do think that people have a right to their opinions, and I really like a civilized debate. What has happened in the last fifteen years in our country has been an end of civility and rational discourse. The loudmouth, left wing, grubby extremists of the 60s and early 70′s have been replaced by the right wing loudmouth extremists in suits.Even though I would like to see a much more radical change in the way our country is operating, and I have grown sick of the Right, I am glad we have a president who is rational, intelligent and has brought so many people together to try to heal the damage that has been done.

QT -We need a real fiscal conservative around here for balance. PPP is not enough. You are more liberal than he on social issues. I value your opinion as someone who sees things differently than I. One always learns more from people you disagree with than the ones you agree with. You have earned my respect by supporting your positions with logic and facts, and I’ve never caught you being hypocritical about your faith. You are valued and so is your input. I’m certain that many agree with me.

QT -We need a real fiscal conservative around here for balance. PPP is not enough. You are more liberal than he on social issues. I value your opinion as someone who sees things differently than I. One always learns more from people you disagree with than the ones you agree with. You have earned my respect by supporting your positions with logic and facts, and I’ve never caught you being hypocritical about your faith. You are valued and so is your input. I’m certain that many agree with me.

Wow TS got whacked! Normally it was just an annoying troll. It really showed its true colors today. Pretty fucking sick unit, I’d say.Scientology is one of my favorite religions! It proves to me that people will believe just about anything when it comes to god. They do a lot of vile stuff, just like lots of religions/cults.I don’t worry too much about actors’ religions since they are just pretend people anyway. I just let myself get carried away into the pretend world they portray.

Wow TS got whacked! Normally it was just an annoying troll. It really showed its true colors today. Pretty fucking sick unit, I’d say.Scientology is one of my favorite religions! It proves to me that people will believe just about anything when it comes to god. They do a lot of vile stuff, just like lots of religions/cults.I don’t worry too much about actors’ religions since they are just pretend people anyway. I just let myself get carried away into the pretend world they portray.

Well said emsique. I got you email. You’ll be getting a reply.

Well said emsique. I got you email. You’ll be getting a reply.

The loudmouth, left wing, grubby extremists of the 60s and early 70′s…keep in mind that those loudmouths actually accomplished some good for this country…

The loudmouth, left wing, grubby extremists of the 60s and early 70′s…keep in mind that those loudmouths actually accomplished some good for this country…

wow I went to read my ever lengthening blog list and all hell broke loose.I agree that QT speaks very rationally and does not try to “convert” anyone to her beliefs. I think she very eloquently expresses you have the right to believe what you choose. I may not always agree with her, but she gives me lots to think about.Having said that, I try to refrain from speaking about my spiritual beliefs because it is personal.I hopefully do not judge others for theirs. Thank God/fsm or whatever deity you choose to believe or you don’t, you have that freedom.fe-very nicely done on the post. you really have a talent for writing, I can’t wait to see your books in print!git-I would like to see that movie, but I can’t get past couch jumper nut

wow I went to read my ever lengthening blog list and all hell broke loose.I agree that QT speaks very rationally and does not try to “convert” anyone to her beliefs. I think she very eloquently expresses you have the right to believe what you choose. I may not always agree with her, but she gives me lots to think about.Having said that, I try to refrain from speaking about my spiritual beliefs because it is personal.I hopefully do not judge others for theirs. Thank God/fsm or whatever deity you choose to believe or you don’t, you have that freedom.fe-very nicely done on the post. you really have a talent for writing, I can’t wait to see your books in print!git-I would like to see that movie, but I can’t get past couch jumper nut

Thanks, Bob. There is dissent, and then there is someone being deliberately inflammatory.

Thanks, Bob. There is dissent, and then there is someone being deliberately inflammatory.

Ceu, I agree. The problem is, too many of them sold out, became Republicans, mega consumers, and some of them are even part of the fringe in suits.

Ceu, I agree. The problem is, too many of them sold out, became Republicans, mega consumers, and some of them are even part of the fringe in suits.

OK, once again I am using up a perfectly beautiful morning to discourse with you all. QT, I admire you greatly.I am going out for a walk in our beautiful park and play on the workout machines the PRC provides in lieu of a proper playground.I think I will have to watch Valkyrie (pirated, of course) today. Stumpy kind of looks like a pirate with that eye patch. Vera, remember he is just a pretend person. I actually like his acting, I doubt I would be able to stand him in person.

OK, once again I am using up a perfectly beautiful morning to discourse with you all. QT, I admire you greatly.I am going out for a walk in our beautiful park and play on the workout machines the PRC provides in lieu of a proper playground.I think I will have to watch Valkyrie (pirated, of course) today. Stumpy kind of looks like a pirate with that eye patch. Vera, remember he is just a pretend person. I actually like his acting, I doubt I would be able to stand him in person.

that may be true (tho, I don’t know any personally who became actual Republicans), but that doesn’t take away from the fact that they did contribute something beside irrationality to the country’s future, m-seek. We did work for POSITIVE change rather than just being obstinate…and the vast majority were not extreme, not the way the extreme right is now

that may be true (tho, I don’t know any personally who became actual Republicans), but that doesn’t take away from the fact that they did contribute something beside irrationality to the country’s future, m-seek. We did work for POSITIVE change rather than just being obstinate…and the vast majority were not extreme, not the way the extreme right is now

Git–in case you missed my reply earlier on last night’s thread…thank you. That was the link I was looking for.

Git–in case you missed my reply earlier on last night’s thread…thank you. That was the link I was looking for.

Is this Bob Cesca’s Blog or QT’s? Just wondering from everyone kissing her ass.

Is this Bob Cesca’s Blog or QT’s? Just wondering from everyone kissing her ass.

hi QueenBee. I hadn’t noticed my butt being kissed. I did notice a handful of people (a bunch less than everybody) being kind to me. I’m grateful for it.Welcome. And yes, it absolutely is Bob’s board. If he says I’m overdoing it, I’ll comply and tone down.QT

hi QueenBee. I hadn’t noticed my butt being kissed. I did notice a handful of people (a bunch less than everybody) being kind to me. I’m grateful for it.Welcome. And yes, it absolutely is Bob’s board. If he says I’m overdoing it, I’ll comply and tone down.QT

>>Scientology is one of my favorite religions! It proves to me that people will believe just about anything when it comes to god.I don’t think ‘when it comes to god’ is even a necessary part of that sentence, I think we’re just dumbasses to start with. Just look at all the crap people buy off QVC.My roommate found a whole box of L. Ron Hubbard writings. The guy was basically incoherent. How anyone could figure out what the eff he was trying to say much less ‘follow his teachings’ or whatever is beyond me.

>>Scientology is one of my favorite religions! It proves to me that people will believe just about anything when it comes to god.I don’t think ‘when it comes to god’ is even a necessary part of that sentence, I think we’re just dumbasses to start with. Just look at all the crap people buy off QVC.My roommate found a whole box of L. Ron Hubbard writings. The guy was basically incoherent. How anyone could figure out what the eff he was trying to say much less ‘follow his teachings’ or whatever is beyond me.

ElMystico: Yeah, Hubbard just flat couldn’t write, regardless of subject. It’s a mystery to me how he got into the Golden Age pantheon (don’t know how Doc Smith got to be popular, either, so it could be just me). I am led to understand that the man was a tool in his personal life, too.

ElMystico: Yeah, Hubbard just flat couldn’t write, regardless of subject. It’s a mystery to me how he got into the Golden Age pantheon (don’t know how Doc Smith got to be popular, either, so it could be just me). I am led to understand that the man was a tool in his personal life, too.

Wow. Looks like I missed some TruthSerum asshattery. And it had to be vile enough for Bob to ban it! And man, Bill O’Reilly is a mean douche. But I knew he’d be happy about the murder of Tiller.

Wow. Looks like I missed some TruthSerum asshattery. And it had to be vile enough for Bob to ban it! And man, Bill O’Reilly is a mean douche. But I knew he’d be happy about the murder of Tiller.

E.E. Doc Smith deserves to be there just for the Lensmen series. What kid doesn’t want Galactic Patrol armor?LRH, not so much. I’ve never finished any of his SciFi that I tried and I gave up trying. There is just too much really good SciFi out there to waste one’s time reading garbage like Hubbard’s.LRH was a great storyteller in person. I often wonder if the people that thought he was great actually ever read his books. Campbell thought he was great but maybe the short stories he wrote for Amazing were good. I’ve never read any of those.

E.E. Doc Smith deserves to be there just for the Lensmen series. What kid doesn’t want Galactic Patrol armor?LRH, not so much. I’ve never finished any of his SciFi that I tried and I gave up trying. There is just too much really good SciFi out there to waste one’s time reading garbage like Hubbard’s.LRH was a great storyteller in person. I often wonder if the people that thought he was great actually ever read his books. Campbell thought he was great but maybe the short stories he wrote for Amazing were good. I’ve never read any of those.

completely off topic, but I had some KFC grilled chicken tonight, and I must say yummmmmmy. If you haven’t tried it and you like chicken, you really should.

completely off topic, but I had some KFC grilled chicken tonight, and I must say yummmmmmy. If you haven’t tried it and you like chicken, you really should.

They need to grill ribs. I don’t like chicken, hence my problem with KFC. It was the word fried I have an issue with.I’ll try it though. I do eat chicken, I just don’t like it much. I’d rather eat snails. I’m serious. Snails are great.

They need to grill ribs. I don’t like chicken, hence my problem with KFC. It was the word fried I have an issue with.I’ll try it though. I do eat chicken, I just don’t like it much. I’d rather eat snails. I’m serious. Snails are great.

An in-depth discussion of science fiction is a guaranteed thread-killer, but…My problem with Smith is that he wrote like he was being paid by the word, which of course he was. Page after page of nothing much happening because paring it down would cost him money. I don’t blame him, any rational person would have done the same, but I get impatient waiting for him to get to the point, or even a point. I’m certainly not willing to go to the mat for my opinion. Diversos diversa juvant; non omnibus annis Omnia conveniunt. (Different things delight different people; it is not everything that suits all ages.) -MaximianusCampbell was, early in his career, a giant in the field (okay, all you non-geeks, stop giggling!). But then he went slightly mad and started championing things like reactionless drives and Scientology, and the fiction he chose to publish went downhill. It’s possible Campbell simply liked Hubbard and published his stuff sight unseen. We’ll never know.

An in-depth discussion of science fiction is a guaranteed thread-killer, but…My problem with Smith is that he wrote like he was being paid by the word, which of course he was. Page after page of nothing much happening because paring it down would cost him money. I don’t blame him, any rational person would have done the same, but I get impatient waiting for him to get to the point, or even a point. I’m certainly not willing to go to the mat for my opinion. Diversos diversa juvant; non omnibus annis Omnia conveniunt. (Different things delight different people; it is not everything that suits all ages.) -MaximianusCampbell was, early in his career, a giant in the field (okay, all you non-geeks, stop giggling!). But then he went slightly mad and started championing things like reactionless drives and Scientology, and the fiction he chose to publish went downhill. It’s possible Campbell simply liked Hubbard and published his stuff sight unseen. We’ll never know.

the closest I ever get to sci/fi books are the Hitchhiker’s Guide and Doctor Who….my faves are Stephen King, Stephen Wright and Kathy Reichs. Of course those aren’t sci/fi. I love murder mysteries and crime stuff.I am reading The Ruins right now. I think it would be classified as horror.

the closest I ever get to sci/fi books are the Hitchhiker’s Guide and Doctor Who….my faves are Stephen King, Stephen Wright and Kathy Reichs. Of course those aren’t sci/fi. I love murder mysteries and crime stuff.I am reading The Ruins right now. I think it would be classified as horror.

Mmmm. Escargot. With garlic butter.Or even better, sauteed escargot-stuffed mushroom caps.

Mmmm. Escargot. With garlic butter.Or even better, sauteed escargot-stuffed mushroom caps.

oh and I am reading Wicked too….I guess that would be fantasy

oh and I am reading Wicked too….I guess that would be fantasy

you all enjoy your snails…I will stick to KFC and Chik-Fil-A…..

you all enjoy your snails…I will stick to KFC and Chik-Fil-A…..

Heinlein and Asimov spoke highly of him. In particular what a great fellow to have around for discussions. I have to wonder if they ever actually read any of his work. I think your theory on Campbell is a good one.Campbell was a big supporter of Dianetics. When it morphed into Scientology to avoid the NJ charges of practicing medicine without a license and moved to Kansas, I think Campbell was not such a keen supporter after that.LRH was a con man. He conned many people. He had a talent for manipulating people. He was also an extremely skilled hypnotist. The people that claim his writing was good all seem to be people that knew him personally. I’ve often thought that he hypnotized everyone he met into thinking he was a great writer. My opinion of LRH’s writing is that he sucked.Doc Smith is revered more as the inventor of the Space Opera. His writing suffers from the deficiencies you describe. He’s not the skilled teller of stories that people like Heinlein, Asimov, Niven, Bear, and McCaffrey are (just to name a few who are excellent story tellers).

Heinlein and Asimov spoke highly of him. In particular what a great fellow to have around for discussions. I have to wonder if they ever actually read any of his work. I think your theory on Campbell is a good one.Campbell was a big supporter of Dianetics. When it morphed into Scientology to avoid the NJ charges of practicing medicine without a license and moved to Kansas, I think Campbell was not such a keen supporter after that.LRH was a con man. He conned many people. He had a talent for manipulating people. He was also an extremely skilled hypnotist. The people that claim his writing was good all seem to be people that knew him personally. I’ve often thought that he hypnotized everyone he met into thinking he was a great writer. My opinion of LRH’s writing is that he sucked.Doc Smith is revered more as the inventor of the Space Opera. His writing suffers from the deficiencies you describe. He’s not the skilled teller of stories that people like Heinlein, Asimov, Niven, Bear, and McCaffrey are (just to name a few who are excellent story tellers).

VeraLynn -Get a copy of Anne McCaffrey’s “The Dragonriders of Pern”. I think you will like it. McCaffrey is one of the best storytellers I’ve ever run across. I think she’s better than King. I think very highly of Stephen King’s story telling ability so that was no insult to King intended, just saying that Anne is just that good. That’s just the first book in a series of six or seven (I don’t remember) that she wrote about Pern. Pern is a planet colonized by earthlings in the future.

VeraLynn -Get a copy of Anne McCaffrey’s “The Dragonriders of Pern”. I think you will like it. McCaffrey is one of the best storytellers I’ve ever run across. I think she’s better than King. I think very highly of Stephen King’s story telling ability so that was no insult to King intended, just saying that Anne is just that good. That’s just the first book in a series of six or seven (I don’t remember) that she wrote about Pern. Pern is a planet colonized by earthlings in the future.

veralynn: The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy is hands-down my vote for the funniest book series ever. I miss Douglas Adams!Git: I think we’re in general agreement. I would quibble and say Heinlein was a good story-teller until he got successful enough to demand that no editor come near his stuff. (Spider Robinson would kick my ass off my spine for saying that, but so be it.)I’m alopecia, and I’m a geek. *hangs head*

veralynn: The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy is hands-down my vote for the funniest book series ever. I miss Douglas Adams!Git: I think we’re in general agreement. I would quibble and say Heinlein was a good story-teller until he got successful enough to demand that no editor come near his stuff. (Spider Robinson would kick my ass off my spine for saying that, but so be it.)I’m alopecia, and I’m a geek. *hangs head*

thanks guys, I will have to go get my library card now…was going to do it last week, but the library was between me and the speedway.And alopecia, nothing wrong with being a geek…I take pride in my geekiness Goodnight all

thanks guys, I will have to go get my library card now…was going to do it last week, but the library was between me and the speedway.And alopecia, nothing wrong with being a geek…I take pride in my geekiness Goodnight all

The funny thing about Heinlein is that while I sort of agree with you, I can’t really. The unedited as written by RAH version of “Stranger in a Strange Land” is so much better then the publisher’s edited version. I won’t hold it against you if you are not an RAH fan. Spider Robinson and George R.R. Martin are unappreciated by many. I don’t like everything Asimov wrote either. I actually prefer the Robot Novels to the Foundation series.

The funny thing about Heinlein is that while I sort of agree with you, I can’t really. The unedited as written by RAH version of “Stranger in a Strange Land” is so much better then the publisher’s edited version. I won’t hold it against you if you are not an RAH fan. Spider Robinson and George R.R. Martin are unappreciated by many. I don’t like everything Asimov wrote either. I actually prefer the Robot Novels to the Foundation series.

I don’t doubt that the publisher massacred “Stranger in a Strange Land.” It was seriously edgy stuff for the time and nobody knew quite what to think of it. On the other hand (there’s always one of those, isn’t there?), The Number of the Beast, Friday, and a couple of others the titles of which elude me at the moment (too much wine tonight, perhaps) meandered and maundered and never really went anywhere. A good editor (note the modifier) would have been able to tighten them up considerably and make them great. As they are, they are curate’s eggs, good in parts.Okay, if I’m using expressions like that, I’m sure I’ve had too much to drink to continue this discussion. Some other time, perhaps.

I don’t doubt that the publisher massacred “Stranger in a Strange Land.” It was seriously edgy stuff for the time and nobody knew quite what to think of it. On the other hand (there’s always one of those, isn’t there?), The Number of the Beast, Friday, and a couple of others the titles of which elude me at the moment (too much wine tonight, perhaps) meandered and maundered and never really went anywhere. A good editor (note the modifier) would have been able to tighten them up considerably and make them great. As they are, they are curate’s eggs, good in parts.Okay, if I’m using expressions like that, I’m sure I’ve had too much to drink to continue this discussion. Some other time, perhaps.

Your comments are correct about those you list.Friday is a book that only myself and two others like and I know both of the two others. You are far more kind to it than most people I’ve ever compared notes with. I agree that an editor could have made it better. For some reason I didn’t mind what others considered major deficiencies. I liked the overall story so the spottiness of the presentation didn’t bother me much but it made it unreadable for others.Sleep well. We’ll talk again I hope.

Your comments are correct about those you list.Friday is a book that only myself and two others like and I know both of the two others. You are far more kind to it than most people I’ve ever compared notes with. I agree that an editor could have made it better. For some reason I didn’t mind what others considered major deficiencies. I liked the overall story so the spottiness of the presentation didn’t bother me much but it made it unreadable for others.Sleep well. We’ll talk again I hope.

I’m a day late, but since Douglas Adams was brought up, I wanted to share this quote with those of the please-don’t-say-negative-things-about-religion opinion:

Now, the invention of the scientific method and science is, I’m sure we’ll all agree, the most powerful intellectual idea, the most powerful framework for thinking and investigating and understanding and challenging the world around us that there is, and that it rests on the premise that any idea is there to be attacked and if it withstands the attack then it lives to fight another day and if it doesn’t withstand the attack then down it goes. Religion doesn’t seem to work like that; it has certain ideas at the heart of it which we call sacred or holy or whatever. That’s an idea we’re so familiar with, whether we subscribe to it or not, that it’s kind of odd to think what it actually means, because really what it means is ‘Here is an idea or a notion that you’re not allowed to say anything bad about; you’re just not. Why not? — because you’re not!’ If somebody votes for a party that you don’t agree with, you’re free to argue about it as much as you like; everybody will have an argument but nobody feels aggrieved by it. If somebody thinks taxes should go up or down you are free to have an argument about it, but on the other hand if somebody says ‘I mustn’t move a light switch on a Saturday’, you say, ‘Fine, I respect that’.

The odd thing is, even as I am saying that I am thinking ‘Is there an Orthodox Jew here who is going to be offended by the fact that I just said that?’ but I wouldn’t have thought ‘Maybe there’s somebody from the left wing or somebody from the right wing or somebody who subscribes to this view or the other in economics’ when I was making the other points. I just think ‘Fine, we have different opinions’. But, the moment I say something that has something to do with somebody’s (I’m going to stick my neck out here and say irrational) beliefs, then we all become terribly protective and terribly defensive and say ‘No, we don’t attack that; that’s an irrational belief but no, we respect it’.

It’s rather like, if you think back in terms of animal evolution, an animal that’s grown an incredible carapace around it, such as a tortoise—that’s a great survival strategy because nothing can get through it; or maybe like a poisonous fish that nothing will come close to, which therefore thrives by keeping away any challenges to what it is it is. In the case of an idea, if we think ‘Here is an idea that is protected by holiness or sanctity’, what does it mean? Why should it be that it’s perfectly legitimate to support the Labour party or the Conservative party, Republicans or Democrats, this model of economics versus that, Macintosh instead of Windows, but to have an opinion about how the Universe began, about who created the Universe, no, that’s holy? What does that mean? Why do we ring-fence that for any other reason other than that we’ve just got used to doing so? There’s no other reason at all, it’s just one of those things that crept into being and once that loop gets going it’s very, very powerful. So, we are used to not challenging religious ideas but it’s very interesting how much of a furore Richard creates when he does it! Everybody gets absolutely frantic about it because you’re not allowed to say these things. Yet when you look at it rationally there is no reason why those ideas shouldn’t be as open to debate as any other, except that we have agreed somehow between us that they shouldn’t be.

I’m a day late, but since Douglas Adams was brought up, I wanted to share this quote with those of the please-don’t-say-negative-things-about-religion opinion:

Now, the invention of the scientific method and science is, I’m sure we’ll all agree, the most powerful intellectual idea, the most powerful framework for thinking and investigating and understanding and challenging the world around us that there is, and that it rests on the premise that any idea is there to be attacked and if it withstands the attack then it lives to fight another day and if it doesn’t withstand the attack then down it goes. Religion doesn’t seem to work like that; it has certain ideas at the heart of it which we call sacred or holy or whatever. That’s an idea we’re so familiar with, whether we subscribe to it or not, that it’s kind of odd to think what it actually means, because really what it means is ‘Here is an idea or a notion that you’re not allowed to say anything bad about; you’re just not. Why not? — because you’re not!’ If somebody votes for a party that you don’t agree with, you’re free to argue about it as much as you like; everybody will have an argument but nobody feels aggrieved by it. If somebody thinks taxes should go up or down you are free to have an argument about it, but on the other hand if somebody says ‘I mustn’t move a light switch on a Saturday’, you say, ‘Fine, I respect that’.

The odd thing is, even as I am saying that I am thinking ‘Is there an Orthodox Jew here who is going to be offended by the fact that I just said that?’ but I wouldn’t have thought ‘Maybe there’s somebody from the left wing or somebody from the right wing or somebody who subscribes to this view or the other in economics’ when I was making the other points. I just think ‘Fine, we have different opinions’. But, the moment I say something that has something to do with somebody’s (I’m going to stick my neck out here and say irrational) beliefs, then we all become terribly protective and terribly defensive and say ‘No, we don’t attack that; that’s an irrational belief but no, we respect it’.

It’s rather like, if you think back in terms of animal evolution, an animal that’s grown an incredible carapace around it, such as a tortoise—that’s a great survival strategy because nothing can get through it; or maybe like a poisonous fish that nothing will come close to, which therefore thrives by keeping away any challenges to what it is it is. In the case of an idea, if we think ‘Here is an idea that is protected by holiness or sanctity’, what does it mean? Why should it be that it’s perfectly legitimate to support the Labour party or the Conservative party, Republicans or Democrats, this model of economics versus that, Macintosh instead of Windows, but to have an opinion about how the Universe began, about who created the Universe, no, that’s holy? What does that mean? Why do we ring-fence that for any other reason other than that we’ve just got used to doing so? There’s no other reason at all, it’s just one of those things that crept into being and once that loop gets going it’s very, very powerful. So, we are used to not challenging religious ideas but it’s very interesting how much of a furore Richard creates when he does it! Everybody gets absolutely frantic about it because you’re not allowed to say these things. Yet when you look at it rationally there is no reason why those ideas shouldn’t be as open to debate as any other, except that we have agreed somehow between us that they shouldn’t be.

And Douglas was, of course, correct in this observation. I’ve never been a fan of sacred unchallenged concepts. It got me in loads of trouble as a young person who questioned everything growing up a Presbyterian. I got the “We don’t question that, it is a matter of faith” non-answer to my questions. This rule set, common to nearly all organized religion, was ultimately what led me to atheism. Everything can and should be challenged. Accepting things unchallenged is, IMO, foolish at best.

And Douglas was, of course, correct in this observation. I’ve never been a fan of sacred unchallenged concepts. It got me in loads of trouble as a young person who questioned everything growing up a Presbyterian. I got the “We don’t question that, it is a matter of faith” non-answer to my questions. This rule set, common to nearly all organized religion, was ultimately what led me to atheism. Everything can and should be challenged. Accepting things unchallenged is, IMO, foolish at best.