Maddow Nails It

Seven months in and time to call it game over and go home.

WTF?

Where did you get ‘game over’ from that video?The people who are pushing back on the Administration are the ones who are getting results.

What results are we getting Lee? The gang of six STILL will not include a public option in their bill. So please tell me what our do-nothing, whine about everything, call the president a naive pussy day in and day out strategy has done?

on how the White House has thus far blown their mandate

This plus the general tone of all your recent posts.

The “public option” was a sellout from the beginning, and now, thanks to Baucus and Grassley et al, Americans won’t even get that.

As much as I dig single payer, abolishing the health insurance industry and establishing a government-only insurance system would’ve doomed healthcare reform a long time ago, and we would have nothing. I don’t buy this notion that single payer would’ve given way to a negotiated compromise for the public option. Asking Congress to seriously pursue single payer would’ve been negotiated down to “You’re crazy, Mr. President. Bye!” in about five seconds.But let’s say single payer wasn’t laughed out of the room at the State of the Union and made it to committees. And let’s say, Finance and HELP work their way up to the August recess and then conclude, “Look we gave it a shot. There aren’t votes to abolish health insurance companies.” (Hypotheticals aside, I would guess there are perhaps 10 votes at most for single payer in the Senate.) The president turns to us and says, “We’re going to make something called a public option and leave all of the health insurance companies in place.”Do you think we would’ve ever in a million years accepted the compromising of single payer into the public option at this point in the process? The same people screaming that “Obama sold us out” would’ve been screaming just as loud. Maybe louder.What I would’ve liked to have seen is the president mandating the public option as non-negotiable. That’s the starting point. But he wasn’t forceful enough with that intention.I definitely appreciate and respect the concept. I just don’t think it would’ve worked.

I’ve gotten angry a few times but I’m not giving up. It almost doesn’t matter what’s in the Finance Committe’s bill. Four of the five bills have a public option in them. They will all have to be merged and the public option is looking more and more like it will, in fact survive. I just saw a headline on the huffington post that made me smile. “Unions Warn Dems: We’ll Sit Out Election If You Oppose Public Option! The noise from our side has not only gotten louder but, more forceful. Look at the pledge from the 57 house members and the man who doesn’t live up to his last name..Anthony Weiner. He’s definitely today’s hero if you watched that clip from Morning Joe! Hang tough guys! I read a comment from someone who said perhaps this is what Obama needed from us. He needs our help! These dicks need to know that the townhall loons don’t represent the 69 million of us who voted for Obama. To state our preference as loud as we can….so to speak. We bloggers have to use caps to display anger but, what’s been most important are the phone calls and emails. I’m with Yogi on this one. “It ain’t over til it’s over” Keep on Pushin!

“I definitely appreciate and respect the concept (of single-payer). I just don’t think it would’ve worked.”Point taken, Bob. But what makes it hard for us watching from the outside is the fact that we (here in Canada) have a single payer system, and despite its problems, we’ve seen how well it can work.More and more, it looks like the final reform bill will be so watered down that it will be practically worthless. Just another giveaway to the insurance companies, with no rules against recission, or denial of coverage for pre-existing conditions. I hope that’s not what happens, but…

Regardless of where a single payer proposal would have taken us, Maddow’s larger point about the total lack of ambition (a term I don’t think is exactly accurate, but I see her point) on the part of the Dems is exactly right. She is calling them fainting goats is she not? The backlash from the left is exactly why Sebelius is backtracking and exactly why the Dem leadership who have spines are speaking out today to say they are standing firm on the public option. If we all sat back and did nothing because we were afraid some dick might call us whiners, we would have lost the entire reform battle long ago. Instead, we still have a chance to lose it.Is it whining to call the blue dogs and complain to them that they are wrong? Is it whining to call those who are on the fence and try to convince them? If not, how can it be whining to blog or comment or publish articles or state in interviews that we are not satisfied with the party or the administration that we fought hard to put in power because they are not fighting equally hard for the things with which we entrusted them?

camel54 wrote:

Is it whining to call the blue dogs and complain to them that they are wrong? Is it whining to call those who are on the fence and try to convince them? If not, how can it be whining to blog or comment or publish articles or state in interviews that we are not satisfied with the party or the administration that we fought hard to put in power because they are not fighting equally hard for the things with which we entrusted them?

Nothing is wrong with any of that. And it doesn’t take much searching through the archives to determine that I’ve done these exact things on this blog. Did you see my call list? The White House listed right at the top just under the word “spineless.”What I consider to be whining, defeatist and counterproductive are the following reactions which ran thick and plentiful Sunday and Monday throughout the blogosphere:”Obama betrayed us.”"Obama sold us out.”"Healthcare reform is dead.”"The public option is dead.”"I’m never voting Democratic again.”"The public option sucked anyway.”"So much for hope and change!”And so on…All defeatist. All whiny.There won’t be a final bill before November and too many liberals wanted to give up and go home. September 2008 all over again. Ridiculous.

Canadian Simon wrote:

Point taken, Bob. But what makes it hard for us watching from the outside is the fact that we (here in Canada) have a single payer system, and despite its problems, we’ve seen how well it can work.

I know. I’m sure our system looks even more ridiculous from the outside. And I’m talking about both our political system and our healthcare system.

More and more, it looks like the final reform bill will be so watered down that it will be practically worthless. Just another giveaway to the insurance companies, with no rules against recission, or denial of coverage for pre-existing conditions.

I don’t agree. I think the bill will absolutely cover those latter things you listed. I also believe it will have the public option which, of course, is a pathway to single payer.Cheers!

To be clear, I did not mean to attack Bob specifically. I have been using his call lists to call congress folk consistently. I was really thinking more generally about every thread where there are commenters who simply reduce anyone who dares complain about the efficacy of Obama and his administration. It was meant as an answer to those who are asking what that has gotten us.

@Canadian Simon: How long have y’all had single payer? I’m just wondering what the system was previously–was there a previous system? We don’t do well with change here, unlike Canada. No voting for independence for us!!

If you believe that Single Payer is the best solution – advocate it.Don’t give in to the defeatist idea it’s somehow a pipe dream. That’s brainwashing – it’s getting you to compromise on the what you really want and know is best.You don’t mollify those against reform with the Public Option anymore than you calm racists by saying Obama is half white.The smart thing is do is to ask for what you really want and what you KNOW will work – Single Payer.

Thanks, Lee. You just said it better than I could have.Obviously, I realize that the creation of a true single payer system in the US is a very daunting challenge. And I understand how the President is concerned (and Bob seems to feel the same way), that if you create such a system, what happens to the existing private insurance sector?? Admittedly, I don’t have a ready answer for that question.To J: We’ve had universal heathcare in Canada since 1961. Prior to this, some provinces had universal coverage, but it became available to all Canadians in the early 60s. Healthcare is actually a provincial responsibility in Canada, but the guarantee of universality is found in the Canada Health Act, which is a federal law. This act sets national standards for care, but the actual nuts and bolts of how care is delivered is left to provincial governments.

@Canadian: interesting. I wonder if we can trust our states to handle that. I think part of the “what do you do with the insurance sector” comes from the fact that Americans like t have everything without giving up anything.