Zero Cred

Bob writes: So why in the world should anyone listen to the far-right now?__________Because they serve a function and a purpose.The Wingnuttia are BELOVED by the DEMS!They NEED them to UNIFY under Obama’a umbrella.They wingnuttia (like the Italian flair!) do three things for the DEMS:1. Increases Party Unity: everyone huddles together under the DEM BIG TENT against the bad/crazy/extreme/nutty folks2. By contrast, they help the DEMS appear: reasoned, kind, caring, sane — and dare I say “ANTI CORPORATE” and “ANTI WALL STREET”(Key word here is “appear” — because it could not be farther from the truth!)3. Takes TIME AND ENERGY away from the DEMS doing any kind of self-analysis of their own party’s wicked, corrupt, corporate, Wall Street lovin’ waysNo wonder you devote so much time and attention to them.And to prove my point, did you hear that this letter (proof!!) was just uncovered:Dear Wingnuts,We love you! Keep up the craziness!Big hugs and kisses,The Democratsxoxoxo;)

My strategy:Ignore their crazy asses and focus on genuine progressive causes.But that’s just me!

…and so on and they ought to be completely laughed off as being the ridiculous sideshow they truly are.

We all know why they continue to get coverage: what used to be the news has given way to anything that might boost ratings. And crazy does that. Of course, taking the side of truth would prove they are liberal so they just air it as if it’s a legitimate side of a discussion.

No words for these assholes. I never thought I’d still consider leaving this country AFTER Obama got elected, but their absolute fucknuttery is starting to wear me down, especially when combined with the Dems’ pussification.How many more days do I have to laugh hollowly at the nonsense? It’s unconscionable.And while we’re on the subject, can someone explain why wingnuts call us moonbats? I mean, I totally understand the origins of wingnuts, right wing + nuts = shortened to an actual word in common usage at any Home Depot, that now takes on a new meaning. Clever. But moonbat? Before hearing it used in an accusatory manner toward a liberal, I’d never encountered the word.

Exactly! By the way, Jed Lelsison has a great post over at the dailykos about the public option and how the progressives have to hold their ground or risk caving once again further damaging them in this process. He talks about how the whitehouse and the Blue Dogs are well aware of their history of caving and will have to fight for the public option and show that they are as much of a political force as the Blue Dogs have been when it comes to their bullshit principals. I totally agree. If the progressives want respect and legitimacy for their positions, they’ll have to demonstrate it. And we have to insist that they do. I’m going to continue to remind them that I’m not donating anymore money to any or them until after the bill is passed with a strong public option. I’d suggest that everyone do the same. They only need to look at the money we raised for Rob Miller to see our legitimacy.

Pea…who cares what they say? Does it really matter at all?Why give lunacy any attention at all.Sane, logical folks realize that you cant combat lunacy with logic.Ignoring them is really the wisest thing to do.Giving them your time, attention, thought, consideration just feeds them.Honestly, I think the wisest thing to do is to put our time and attention elsewhere: on real ways to make change not on their foolishness.By tending to them, it just brings us down and what do we have for it in the end?They were nutty years ago.They were nutty yesterday.They are nutty today.They will be nutty tomorrow.So what?

“So why in the world should anyone listen to the far-right now?”That’s a question I wrestle with everytime I hear the Bush Republicans(and about 95% of current Republicans are Bush Republicans)tell everyone they know better than the people that have been correct all along.Bush was appointed to the presidency- checkThe Bush administration is in bed with Big Oil- checkGeorge W. Bush is incompetent, a dry drunk, and has sadistic tendencies- checkThe Bush Republican administration ignored intelligence reports that could have prevented 9/11- checkBush is using 9/11 for partisan political goals- check”Free speech zones” are bullshit and cowardly- checkIraq is a bad idea, illegal, and pre-determined by neocons long before Iraq- checkBlood for oil companies- checkThe troops are dangerously underequipped- checkWe’re killing civilians and creating a humanitarian disaster- checkWaste and fraud have run amok in Iraq- checkPTSD is a severe problem- checkDick Cheney is abusing power- checkWe’re torturing people sadistically- checkBushco is lying- checkWiretapping Americans and circumventing the law is criminal- checkThe terror alerts are political fearmongering- checkKarl Rove is lying when he says politics weren’t involved with the firing of US Attorneys- checkLike Florida, there are obvious inconsistenices in Ohio during the 2006 presidential election with purging and caging.People need immediate federal help in New Orleans- checkThe Planet is getting warmer because of human activity- Check.Sarah Palin is a nitwit- checkWith a well documented history of being so obviously stupid, wrong, and liars– leading people to believe that the idiots that have been so wrong for so long are superior to those that have been correct every step of the way is the product of a sick sick mind.That goes especially for David Frum and Bill Kristol.

So just ignore them.Time and energy best spent on getting done what you can get done AND holding your own corporate party (Dem– if that is your party) accountable.

I’d be perfectly happy to ignore Teh Crazy™.But the media won’t. They keep treating them seriously instead, thus giving Teh Crazy™ traction.

By the way, that’s Jed Lewison!

Bob asks:So why in the world should anyone listen to the far-right now?But the question could be directed directly at Bob himself.Why do you not only listen to them, but also post their pictures, videos, quote them, and expose their nuttiness again and again?I think Bob — and others MSNBC, Air America and all the rest — so it for the reasons I stated in my first post in this thread.The wingnuts certainly serve a purpose and function to the Dems and the DEMS NEED THEM.My opinion is that the time and energy would be best spent holding your own party leaders feet to the fire and holding them accountable and in-check.It’s so much more meaningful and empowering.Over-focusing on the wingnuts as Bob and others in the party line do, is really not time and energy well spent.Seriously.

“The wingnuts certainly serve a purpose and function to the Dems and the DEMS NEED THEM.”Yeah, we need them to scare the shit out of us everyday. These are the voices and ideals of the opposition.It helps to be reminded of what the alternative is.You ignore them and they generate uncontested Obama/Democratic Party fatigue and their lies gain momentum with those that have not the time nor energy to fact check– primarily the “Independents.”Sorry, but I’ll go with Bob’s assessments and decisions to highlight the voice of the opposition and not look back.Know your ideological enemy.

Oh please, Terri.If I may, I believe the meaning of Bob’s “why in the world should anyone listen to the far-right now?” is “why lend them credence?”, which is a legitimate question, as this is what seems to have happened over the last month or so.But certainly not here. Bob, (and the rest of us) keep an eye on the insanity, and well we should. He does not ‘listen’ to them. Had the lunatics been laughed out of the townhalls, I’m fairly certain you wouldn’t be seeing much of them on the blogs. But they weren’t. The MSM, amazingly enough, gave them cred. Again and again. To the point where memes like “Obama is losing the message war” became fairly commonplace.The U.S. film industry has Michael Bay. We, apparently, have you.

It’s the same as “giving attention to”….Tell me, where does keeping an eye on the insanity get you?How does it advance your cause?If everyone started ignoring them, what would happen?Your argument is weak and flawed.See my first post at the top of this thread just under Bob’s blog.You and the rest are being played out.Bob lends them credibility every time he focuses on them.

MrBrink said:

Sorry, but I’ll go with Bob’s assessments and decisions to highlight the voice of the opposition and not look back.Know your ideological enemy.

Ditto. The wingnuts are like cancer. If you ignore them, the next think you know they’ve spread everywhere.Kind of reminds me of a certain commenter…

Adding — who is “winning” the message war?Are all your efforts, attention, captions, pictures, and videos getting you anywhere?It might be time to reassess and re-strategize.It always stuns me that whenever there is a singular lunatic in the group: say within a family, a workplace, or a neighborhood non-loonies—- even if there are more of them and the true looney is outnumbered — seem to “win”.Think about that crazy family member who causes trouble.Think about the weird worker you know who says and does outrageous things.You cannot respond to nuttiness with sanity. I mean, the loonies don’t exist in the realm of reason. You can’t “beat them” with facts, logic and rationale.It really is wise to ignore them and forge ahead with your agenda……….unless……….there is some payoff or benefit to following them?..!Really, it’s time to reassess the strategy and find a new way forward.

Redmond: what impact, if any do you think you and those who pay attention are having?What has been accomplished, if anything?They’re still nutty.They will remain nutty.They will make the news.Lunacy is like that no matter what you do or don’t do.Has paying attention them had any payoff?Have you had good results to report?I really ask you and the others to question that.I mean, if all your efforts have no impact: why continue?

Terri,Bob is not the one “lending credibility” to Teh Crazy™.The mainstream media are who is lending credibility to insanity.Bob, and many others are doing what they can to put the lie to it, and hopefully marginalize them.To ignore your enemy is foolish.

Bob, when you post a video that terrible it should be clearly labeled as brain-toxic. Maybe call it “Morning Awful”?

Hello Wolfe_Tone,Well, let’s say he’s participating along with the other DEM networks.What I’m asking is: DOES it marginalize them?If paying attention to them doesn’t really “work” then try ignoring.You see, my argument is that by paying attention, it accomplishes these three things:1. Unifies the Dems.2. Make the Dems -by comparison – seem better than they really are3. Helps avoid time and attention on evaluation, criticism, and analysis of the DemThat is why I think Dem media outlets love to focus their attention on them — and Bob appears to be strong with the party line in doing so.I’m suggesting that by doing this you really don’t get ANY RESULTS WHATSOEVER! None.They continue to be nuts. We continue to see themI know it is a point of connection to many.It’s like complaining at work or something. The common “bond” in the group is “Man oh man what did those crazy wingnuts do today?”But, really — in all honesty — is there anything forward moving about it?I choose to ignore them and put time, attention, and effort on causes that are important to me.It’s the only sane response to the insanity around us…..

Terri says:

I mean, if all your efforts have no impact: why continue?

Why am I suddenly thinking about pots and kettles?

Redmond wrote:

Ditto. The wingnuts are like cancer. If you ignore them, the next think you know they’ve spread everywhere.

Exactly. They need to be vigilantly marginalized.

And here’s my REALLY BIG POINT:I think that underneath it all the really BIG, SCARY FEAR is that they might get back in power again!The fear is President Romney, or President Pawlety, or President Scarborough (saw that floating around)….And IF OBAMA DOESN’T DO HIS JOB RIGHT ON THE ISSUES: it will be so!!!!!!But, it won’t be because the of the wingnuts it will be because OBAMA AND HIS TEAM FAILED US!If you want to spend your time, energy, and efforts wisely: hold OBAMA’S feet to the fire so he gets it right and forget the creepies.IF OBAMA handles his position and team well, the crazies can get as absurd as they want and it won’t matter at all.Instead, Obama is LOSING HIS SUPPORT (and he never “had” the crazies anyhow, he won the WH without them) and that should be your concern.Obama is failing us miserably and if everyone takes their eye off of THAT it WILL be President Romney…or Palin…or Pawlenty …or Douchborough.

Here’s a great blog entry posted today at Crooks & Liars called stoopid-peepul

Redmond: what do you mean? Explain.

Redmond wrote:Ditto. The wingnuts are like cancer. If you ignore them, the next think you know they’ve spread everywhere.Exactly. They need to be vigilantly marginalized.___________________So you marginalized them, right?They are off in the corner?You made them less significant?You stopped the wingnut cancer?It sure doesn’t seem like it!

Perhaps attempting to counter their crazy doesn’t marginalize them, Terri.Not as long as MSBC, CNN, FOX and others continue to give them credibility.But neither does putting your fingers in your ears and singing “lalalalala, I can’t hear you” make them go away, either.

Terri, regardless of the bizarro context where wingnuttery resides, this is the very idea of democracy where debate is encouraged and differences are recognized, and may the best ideas win.I like knowing what they’re up to and the basis for their gripes. I debate Libertarians, Objectivists, and insane Wingnuts all the time. I’ve spent nearly the past 10 years fine tuning my approach and arguments in doing so.10 years. You know why? Because I took the wingnuts for granite in the 90′s and didn’t notice until W was sworn in that ignoring their plight is a huge mistake.How can you understand the origins and motives in the relentless war for ideas if you’re not participating and simply ignoring? If people were threatening your family and organizing a lynching posse would you just ignore it?Your mistake is that you underestimate the power of the forces supporting the crazy choir.It isn’t just crazy people, Terri. It’s an insidious well funded machine using these people as willing ventriloquist dummies.

Redmond FTW.

Terri wrote:

So you marginalized them, right?

What the fuck, Terri. It’s an on-going process. You know — a movement. You don’t spike the ball and go home. Why am I even replying to such nonsense?

The nazis and hitler were ignored. How’d that work out?

If this brand of incoherent lunacy is ignored, it will spread. It needs to be met head-on.

“Can someone explain why wingnuts call us moonbats?”pea, I don’t know the answer to this, but I find it confusing and weird that it’s a slur on lefties. When I hear “moonbat,” I think of right-wing Washington Times founder Rev. Sun Myung Moon, whose followers are called “moonies.” No relation, apparently.

I’d be perfectly happy to ignore Teh Crazy™.But the media won’t. They keep treating them seriously instead, thus giving Teh Crazy™ traction.Posted by: Wolfe_Tone

News for ya folks… half of the people in Beck’s ratings… are liberals watching Teh Crazy™ and not supporting the same time slots on MSNBC.

“…Obama is failing us miserably…”Posted by: Terri

37-and-0 so far on legislation passed.And apparently that’s what “failing us miserably” looks like. What an ungrateful lil whiny brat.