New Huffington Post Column

Okay, I’ll go read it.(mainly this is a test comment)

B minus.(I grade on a curve.)

I am glad posted this on HuffPost…Unlike here, I think you’ll see the comments are a lot more balanced and reflective of the real rift in the progressive world.Over here, it’s really mainly me and Terri and we take a lot of hits for it; unfairly and out of transportation.And people in comments are saying what I’ve said – Bob is giving a false characterization of progressive criticism of Obama.Nobody expected him to solve everything at once. Nobody expects him to be superhuman or more progressive he ran as. But may of us expected him to be AS progressive as he ran as. We expected him to keep his promises about lobbyists.Even in the piece, Bob is conceding thing that I have argued with him for months. “There are growing indications that the moderation coming from the White House on the public option is mainly from Emanuel’s office.” for example.So I’m glad it is posted and I hope Bob listens.

Lee, you make it sound like I’m being flamed. From what I can tell, there are some very supportive comments in there along with several wingnuts.>>>But may of us expected him to be AS progressive as he ran as.And I can point to a long list of progressive successes.Maybe take a minute and make a list of the successes and failures. Let me know which side is longer.Adding… Some would argue that he didn’t run as a progressive. Remember Edwards?

Eric:>>>B minus.Thanks minus.

Also, Lee, you do understand that when I say “he hasn’t fixed the whole world yet,” I’m exaggerating for effect right?

@Lee: “But may of us expected him to be AS progressive as he ran as.” As Bob pointed out, I think the perception of how progressive he was was different from how progressive he was actually stating and showing himself to be. On some things, certainly he talked a better game–like DADT. But on some things, I think people assumed he was lying to get elected, when really that’s how he feels.As far as “no one expected him to solve everything at once”, I will believe that once I stop constantly being hit with a chorus of “he hasn’t done anything”, “this isn’t the change I voted for”, etc.I do think it’s interesting that you find the HuffPo to be more balanced, though my disagreement may be over a definition of balanced. I find the tone in the comments there to be very similar to the tone of that earlier post here. But certainly, there are many more people commenting there that agree with your point of view.@Bob: I think my favorite comment was the person who pointed out how much the media narrative is a part of this. We’re all being manipulated and frankly it’s scary.

Bob – J summed it up – ” there are many more people commenting there that agree with (Lee’s) point of view.”That’s what I mean by balanced.If you posted your piece on FireDogLake, for example, the comments would be more against you than not.None of this makes anyone ‘right’ – I’m just laying out the balance as I see it.I don’t think you’re accurately portraying the objections and I think you’ve behind the curve on this, generally. Obama ran as a DIFFERENT kind of Democrat. This was emphasized over and over again throughout the campaign.Point to something he’s done that Hillary or any establishment Democrat wouldn’t have done.

> > Bob – J summed it up – ” there are many more people commenting there that agree with (Lee’s) point of view.”LeeWhat is the end game of the leftbaggers? What good can come of non-constructive complaining? Nader?

Lee:

Point to something he’s done that Hillary or any establishment Democrat wouldn’t have done.

Okay.Has any other president — Democrat or otherwise — managed to get healthcare reform to this stage? The answer is no. Was Hillary Clinton able to get her reform plan out of committee in 1993? Nope. (You walked right into this one, Lee.) The House is going to have a floor vote on healthcare reform this week. That’s never happened before. Ever.The middle class tax cut in the stimulus bill was the largest middle class tax cut in American history.How many president’s have rescued the economy from the brink of another great depression?Should I go on?

Adding…Lee:

I don’t think you’re accurately portraying the objections and I think you’ve behind the curve on this, generally.

Do you have any idea how douchey that was?

Different time, Bob. The mood is right for health reform. I think Hillary would have easily gotten as far as Obama – he’s cribbed her health care plan, after all. He’s done it with Rahm, after all.Ditto for Hillary ‘fixing’ the economy with people like Summers…for obvious reasons.It’s all establishment Democratic stuff.And that douchey line is the kind of bullying I referred to in another thread, Bob. What – you’re ahead of the curve on criticizing Obama? People are telling you on HuffPost – no, that’s not what we’re saying. Listen, man.

Oh Oh! I am starting to smell a rat here!

Which one is it Lee? He ran as a DIFFERENT kind of Democrat or he ran as a Progressive?And please tell the truth!!! Many on the Left fantasized that Obama was going to be some kind of Braveheart character who would swoop into Washington and Vanquish all who did not fall in line with the Left’s agenda, bring all of Wall Street to it’s knees, and give geese that lay golden eggs to every household.The expectations that is lumped on this president is completely unreasonable considering how Washington works or doesn’t work. That’s not an excuse, it’s a fact that most people in this country already know. Not even 2 months in and he was already being dubbed the next W. Four months in and the Left was demanding that he be more like W. Six-eight months in, he’s been brainwashed by Darth Vader Rahm and is stabbing Reid, Progressives and the American people in the back by making a deal with Lieberman to help him squash the Public Option. On HuffPo this week the vast majority of the articles were slamming him for not getting some of the biggest legislation ever put forth in a very long time, through the asshole that is Congress. And I hope you read HuffPO today because there are few articles that push back on the bullshit.Obama said a lot of things but I find it curious that you don’t remember when he talked of how power does not concede easily and the section of his Denver speech were he said this is not going to be easy. There will be false starts, and set backs, etc. Dude, not every day is going to be a win, he’s not going to get everything he wants, he can’t get every one to do his bidding, his election was a miracle but he can’t perform. He’s not a revolutionary, he’s not a fire-breathing Liberal. He showed you who he was during the 2 year campaign, too many failed to see it.

Lee:>>>People are telling you on HuffPost – no, that’s not what we’re saying. Listen, man.What Huffington Post are you looking at? Right in front of me I’m seeing:-Go Bob! As usual, thank you for a great column.-Excellent summation, Bob!-Great column. Mr. Cesca,-For what it’s worth, I think you’ve nailed itThat’s just at a glance.By the way, you have some allies on KILL THE BILL. They’re teabaggers and wingnuts. Maybe you guys can join forces.http://goodsensepolitics.blogspot.com/2009/11/dont-kill-grandma-kill-bill.html

Lee:

Different time, Bob. The mood is right for health reform. I think Hillary would have easily gotten as far as Obama – he’s cribbed her health care plan, after all. He’s done it with Rahm, after all.

How did you generate the 1.21 gigawatts for your Delorean to go back in time, elect Hillary, watch her first year, then fix the time-space continuum, de-elect Hillary, elect Obama and return to this place and time?That’s amazing! Biff Tannen is a prick!Me, I’m looking at historical precedent. You’re talking hypotheticals.

Bob, I normally agree with your points and I always love your irreverent style. On your HuffPost article regarding the President’s first year, I think you are WAY off the mark.For the record, I’m a fiscal conservative, social moderate independent who enthusiastically voted for Obama and supported him ALL THE WAY.Your evidence for Obama’s accomplishments is the handful of executive orders where the signing was easy. What semi-difficult legislation did he see thru Congress and sign? Nada. Nada.The so called stimulus plan? A watered down patchwork of compromised crapola where virtually ALL of the stimulus was in outlying years. This was a grand giveaway compromise to the Republicans and he got a SINGLE vote for it out of either house of Congress.Anyone say lobbyists? Didn’t I hear the President say he would run a transparent White House and keep the lobbyists on the outside? At least the Bush administration was HONEST when they sucked-up to K Street.Health Reform? You call the current packages working their way thru Congress meaningful health insurance reform? Horseshit. It’s an outright giveaway to health care companies. Period.Bank reform anyone? What fricken bank reform??? Nada.The only area Obama gets high marks is the fact that his foreign policy allows other nations to semi-respect us again.Iraq? I don’t call leaving 50K armed soldiers in Iraq indefinitely a withdrawal.Afghanistan? Nation building Obama, they call him.The President isn’t only losing the left. He’s losing the CENTER. The big fat part of the bell curve is abandoning him because he is a fricken WUSS. I know something about leadership and Obama is sorely lacking in leadership.

*rolls eyes*Lee isn’t happy until he’s made everything about him and/or obfuscates. Here we go again…

P.S.Go read Drew Westen’s recent article, along with Robert Borosage’s. Both state the case against Obama’s leadership far more eloquently than i ever could.

Bob – people can check for themselves. I don’t know why you only quote the “Good job, Bob!” quotes. It seems pretty dishonest.Yes – they are there…but also these…just in the first few quotes alone. Much more of balance than here and it’s odd for you to argue otherwise.I’m tired of Democratic excuses. I think we’ve all heard “victory is just around the corner” too many times.There’s lots of positive spin coming out regarding small PR moves on major issues and larger moves on small issues.“In terms of the left, we’ve set marble-man expectations, and then we’re shocked and outraged when these expectations aren’t met.” Wrong. “Marble-man expectations” were a RESULT of unequivocal presentations and proclamations – directly from the candidate’s mouth, as well his overall campaign.I just had to let go of 15 accountants today each with their own unique story of family, mortgages, kids, you name it. Why? Because the banks didn’t have the requisite to pump those dollars back into the system as a condition of grabbing OUR bail out money that’s why. Was this part of the deal that was overlooked? Seems to me we didn’t enforce the nucleus of the deal itself or the deal was not orchestrated correctly in the first place. Quite the opposite. Regardless, in a free enterprise dynamic the people that put a deal like this together wouldn’t come within 2 miles of another transaction in my opinion.

Bob,Your best column thus far on HuffPo. For fuxsakes, people, Obama has been in office for NINE months. Inherited a near-depression, and is still getting health care reform on the docket. The end-game hasn’t even started. We get some bills to conference and then he moves in. CHILL THE FUCK OUT! ……He’s got this.

Zonker…I couldn’t agree more. The political naivete and complete lack of any historical perspective of some people who post here, just astounds me.

Lee:>>>>It seems pretty dishonest.I clearly wrote “right in front of me” and “at a glance.” Meaning that they were comments on the first comment admin page that was on another Chrome tab. Goddamn.Speaking of dishonest, I love how you conveniently use your eyesight as an excuse for not reading a bill, but you can surely scour my comment thread at Huff Post. It seems pretty dishonest.By the way, when are you going to admit that you misinterpreted the House bill? When are you going to correct your misleading video? When are you going to admit that 125% of standard premiums will be a considerable savings for high-risk Americans who are currently paying up to twice the standard premium? It seems pretty dishonest, Lee.

Well fuck why bother having 4 year terms? Apparently we need yearly presidential elections so we can show these guys that we want our reform and we want it now! And if we don’t get it IMMEDIATELY by God we’re gonna throw the biggest, least productive temper tantrum this country has ever seen!

There seems to be a false perception that Obama was made dictator & not president. Guess what? CONGRESS writes the legislation & stop thinking that Obama’s admin hasn’t been pushing for what he wants. (Lee forgot that long ago when he started buying into every negative, anonymously sourced bullshit out there!) CONGRESS needs to reimpose regulations on the banking industry. CONGRESS should have written the legislation so that the big banks were forced to lend to smaller banks. CONGRESS needs get its act together rather than waiting for the executive branch to do all the work they were ELECTED to do!YES, most of what Obama could accomplish by executive order he has done and it was easy. That’s why the GOP loves GOP presidents using executive orders! In other ways, he has acted in accordance with the Constitution.The stimulus plan you don’t like? Try to imagine this country without it.Obama stated in the campaign that he would continue to pursue the war in Afghanistan. That he’s not shoving kids out of planes to fight against an enemy that’s no longer there is a change for the better.As for leaving troops in Iraq – do people even know what the US-Iraq Troop withdrawal agreement says?? The agreement, BTW, was signed by BushCo, not Obama.Christ, this is a DEMOCRACY. Things take time. Yeah, we’d all like everything to be fixed immediately, but it’s not gonna happen and anyone who thought it was and is bitching that it hasn’t is either too young to remember how this country is supposed to work or too naive to deal with it. Grow the fuck up.

Fuck yeah, Ceu. Let’s go on a woman-date.

Jane and ceu….can we make it a threesome?

Threesome? Damn, y’all, can we just have an orgy?

THAT’s why we call her the Smart Chris.

make it a threesome jane StranaTerri:I said a few months back when you started this bullshit that I wasn’t going to address you anymore. I have tried to abide by this. However, when you call Redmond(and how disrespectful of you to call him “Rushmond” and ask who is he), Bob and others wussies I feel I have to put my two cents worth in. You may call me names and mock me like you have everyone on this entire blog whom you have said have done nothing. Fuck you, first off. Who the hell are you to tell me what the fuck I have done or haven’t? Fuck you.Second, have you only been paying attention to the way the United States government works for the last 8 years? We have a bi-cameral democratic republic. Do you know what that means? If not, see ceu’s post above. Are you aware that we are supposed to have 3 branches of government? You remember from the “Schoolhouse Rock” “I’m just a Bill”? Presidents can propose things until they are blue in the face. Doesn’t mean jackshit unless CONGRESS does its job. Granted, since you have only been paying attention since 2000, you wouldn’t really know that.I believe someone asked you earlier…what is your endgame here? You really want Sarah Palin to be President? Because if you recall, that is exactly how we got the last 8 fucking years. This all started when President Ford pardoned Nixon. Rumsfeld and Cheney realized they could fuck this country over and gain power and money doing it. The disenchantment of our national leaders has played right into their hands. The disorganization of the democratic party plays right into their hands now. I understand President Obama hasn’t been strenuous enough for the likes of some of the far left. Hell, he hasn’t done some of what I want him to, but he is the best shot at getting this country back to being the country we used to be. Before the culture wars and the mixing of religion and politics.I understand you want single payer, I do too. But again, this is how it works in this country. You don’t have to be satisfied with everything this administration does in the first 4 years. There won’t be anyone in the country that does unless we come apart at the seams ourselves. Then, boom goes the dynamite, literally. President Palin.So do me, and others on this blog, a favor….use your talents constructively. Do not derail this President because he didn’t do what you, Lee Stanahan, wants him to do when you wanted him to do it and how you wanted him to do it. Don’t you have kids? Have you taught them that instant gratification is a good thing?Take a breath, admit you are wrong and apologize to Bob and Redmond. If I were Bob, you would’ve been gone a long time ago.Now go and read some American history on how bills get made into law and go to Huffington Post if it is more to your liking.You may now resume your previous activities.

Bob,I never used my eyesight as an excuse for anything but typos. I read the part of the bill that the video refers to. And you’ve already said you thought the video was dishonest. I don’t agree.Vera,You’re making it about me. It’s not – go read other blogs. I’m just one of the few left here who dares to say or think anything. This is a rift that I identified months ago and it continues to grow.My endgame is hold President Obama accountable to what he said he would do, just as he asked.Holding him accountable doesn’t mean just making a list of the nice things he’s done – it means also being honest about the problems, too.

“I’m just one of the few left here who dares to say or think anything.”And the insults continue.

Forgive me. This place is obviously very welcoming to progressive criticism of President Obama.

Criticism is one thing. Misrepresentation of the facts is quite another.

There is NO WAY Lee could generate that kind of power without the Libyans.

Thats the problem here though. There is constructive criticism and then there is plain old whining. Lately yours is merely the latter.

Veralynn:Nicely said. Last I checked, we lived in a Democracy, not a Monarchy. The system was created this way for a reason. Is it slow? Sure. Is it efficient? Not always. Do we always get everything we want? Hardly. But Lee, Terri and the others would be much happier with nothing than to see this implemented and then improved upon over time. If this bill doesn’t pass, there aren’t going to be any do-overs here. They aren’t going back to the drawing board on this, folks. This is our shot to get the ball rolling toward single payer. The fact that we have come this far is a HUGE accomplishment. And yes I realize what an understatement that is.Holding our leaders accountable is one thing. Having no sense of history or how the system works is entirely another. I believe somewhere along the line here, Terri said “compromise is for wussies”. I almost fell off my chair. This statement, as well as most of Lee’s, shows a clear lack of understanding of our government and the process. Compromise is for wussies? Wtf? We just got finished with 8 years of no compromise whatsoever.I just simply cannot take anything these people say with a single ounce of seriousness. I have no respect for them and to be honest, their presence here on this blog just creates a huge, smelly, stain. I don’t know how Bob has suffered this twattery for as long as he has.

There seems to be some confusion about the difference between “end” results and intermediate metrics. If you’re a CFO, you don’t have the end results (quarterly profits) until the end of the quarter, but your shareholders don’t accept the bullshit excuse of “wait till the end of the quarter before you judge how we did.” They look for intermediate metrics like contracts signed and customer meetings in order to PREDICT the end results before quarter end.Likewise, with our President, we can look at his activity in yes, the first nine months of his presidency in order to TRY and predict longer term outcomes.NO ONE expects big results from this President. YET. That’s NOT what those of us who are disappointed in him expect. We are looking at his actions and the gap between his words and deeds to tell us about his leadership style and where he might be headed. And it’s frightening.He campaigned on the public option at a minimum and spoke often of a single payer system for health insurance reform. Where is that commitment now? In the trashcan, apparently.He has spoken repeatedly about corporate reform and the need to regulate corporate excess and reduce the impact of lobbyists in the halls of government. How’s he doing with that? Seems like he and his chief of staff and financial guys are clearly taking the side of the lobbyists. No?Pick any area: gay rights, government accountability, rendition programs, conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan, foreclosures, big pharma (the list could get much longer) and this President’s ACTIONS say he’s a sellout.So PLEASE don’t give me this crap about expecting too much too soon. It’s not about the end results, YET. It’s about managing the gap between words and deeds, and at least giving half an effort.Leaders DO NOT compromise on their values. Ever. This President seems to value compromise above all else.

Sammy: You write: “I have no respect for them and to be honest, their presence here on this blog just creates a huge, smelly, stain.”No need to insult people just because you don’t see the world the way they do.Your post above implies that because representative democracy is slow and usually involves some level of horsetrading, that government MUST involve compromise. Bullshit. The problem these past 8 years wasn’t that Republicans weren’t willing to compromise. The problems was that Democrats didn’t know how to negotiate and push back.Good leadership is knowing how to effectively use POWER and that power can take many forms. Yes, sometimes that power is the ability to build trust with others and seek compromise. But sometimes power comes from the ability to beat your opponent over the head with a political stick and to keep hitting him until he’s proverbially dead. You and I might not like that tactic, but with a bully it’s often the only thing you can do.Obama has shown he can play nice guy and build trust. And it’s NOT working with these bullies. What do you recommend? That he keep on playing nice? They say insanity is doing the same thing, over and over, expecting a different result.And you’re telling us we create “a huge smelly stain?” Get real, bud.

indy750:How terribly naive of you.Tell us, please, in all your infinite wisdom, what politician, President or otherwise, has ever followed through on all of their campaign promises? It can’t be done. Period. It’s not how our system works or was ever intended to work. Speaking for myself, I voted for our President based on his passion for wanting to do the best he can for us. I believed (and still do) that he was not only the best choice, but had the necessary understanding of what his role should be. Never once did I think he could deliver all that he wanted to. In addition, who are you to say he has compromised his values? Do you somehow have a psychic hotline to our Presidents brain? You know what he’s thinking and what he intends to do?I don’t think anyone here in the perceived “Obama Worship Camp” has ever said to NOT carefully watch what is being done, how it’s being done, and to do our best to hold him accountable. What I personally won’t do is join the wingnut left “too cool for the room club” and start bashing him. You have no idea how dangerous that behavior is in the long term. Want a our next President to be another right wing shit head? Or worse yet, Palin? Then keep it up.

indy750:First, I am not a “BUD”. I am a woman.Second, I will continue to call people smelly stains on this blog because that’s what they are. It has nothing to do with whether or not they agree with me. It has to do with the tactics and lack of respect that has been shown to Bob on his own blog.Lastly, I will not accept the “compromise is for wussies” meme. The fact that we’ve gotten this far with HCR is a flipping miracle given the sheer money and power to keep it from happening. This has been achieved due to a combination of compromise (like it or not) and hard work. Sounds like you’d rather live in a dictatorship…you know…with the lack of compromise and bullying talk.

Well, this going nowhere.Talk about the proverbial “line in the sand”. The leftbaggers have constructed a moat and they are as entrenched in their need to bitch and harass as the teabagger component on the right.Fuck it.

Lee:Different time, Bob. The mood is right for health reform. I think Hillary would have easily gotten as far as Obama – he’s cribbed her health care plan, after all. He’s done it with Rahm, after all.How did you generate the 1.21 gigawatts for your Delorean to go back in time, elect Hillary, watch her first year, then fix the time-space continuum, de-elect Hillary, elect Obama and return to this place and time?first…that’s funny, bob. second…i see things haven’t changed with lee at all. he throws out his precious little soundbites only to be all…”i didn’t say that”, “it’s different this time”, “hey look, there’s a squirrel” when the, oh i don’t know, FACTS are thrown back at him. look at the timeline of women’s suffrage, civil right’s movement, etc. what makes you think health care reform is so different? that we can go from nothing to perfection in less than a year? jesus, women and minorities are STILL not where we should be! am i 100 percent pleased with obama? absolutely not. and not just with health care reform. however, he is making progress where others have not. this all or nothing mentality is not helpful. it will only end up fucking us all in the future.

Did I miss Obama campaigning on single payer, or did he say that he thinks the American citizen should have the same OPTIONS as members of Congress?

Lee,I’m not as familiar with the criticisms/misrepresentations argument that seems to be going on here, but let me give you this piece of advice – don’t lump yourself in with Terri.Terri is on this blog all the time spreading objectively verifiable falsehoods about the various bills – things that are simply not open to interpretation.She comes on and says “This bill doesn’t include X, Y, or Z. This bill is trouble, folks!” Things like “what counts as low-income” isn’t even defined!”So I look up the bill, hit “CTR + F”, and have found out that it DOES include X Y and Z with 2 minutes. I point out those sections to her. And then get no response.At least you have the balls to actually read the sections of the bill that you’re arguing about….But if I were you, I’d steer clear of the phrase “me and Terri” for the sake of your own credibility.

off topic and late, but:GYPSY!