60 Needs an Asterisk

Oh great. Ben Nelson’s abortion amendment is almost exactly like the Stupak language.

When I read stories like this, I can’t help but to return to a pet fascination/frustration of mine. I can’t help but to seriously question the wisdom of friendlies who are overly critical of the president’s approach to healthcare reform. The fact is that no matter how charismatic he might be, or how LBJ-ish he could be, there’s just no way around assnauts like Ben Nelson or Joe Lieberman or Max Baucus. I’m not sure how the president could ever have zig-zagged around this crew with any public option more robust than what we’re getting. It just doesn’t seem possible.

Yglesias (again) makes a terrific point about the Liebercrats and conservadems in a post titled Obama Still Popular, Legislating Is Just Hard:

Somewhere between 90 and 100 members of the United States Senate seem committed to the current supermajority system for passing legislation. The supermajority system could be changed, but it can’t be changed by Obama. And thus to assemble 60 votes, Obama needs to rely on Democrats who represent such states as Arkansas, Louisiana, North Dakota, Indiana, South Dakota, Montana, and Nebraska. These states are all more conservative than the average American state. This makes it, objectively, very difficult to secure 60 votes for a progressive legislative agenda. In the House of Representatives, which is elected in a different way, Obama hasn’t had a major problem securing a majority for a progressive legislative agenda. And in the Senate, it’s not like Obama’s been an abject failure.

If any of the “Just Like Bush” crowd can explain to me how the president was supposed to pass healthcare reform without the help of the conservadems, I’d love to know. Personally, I can’t seem to crack that nut.

60 votes should read 60 votes*.

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  • Hielo

    BobI posed the same question last month. One Cescan answered.Simple really.” Just use reconciliation.”Yeah. Right. Why can’t Obama just realize this?

  • http://www.osborneink.com Matt Osborne

    Hielo, reconciliation is a good threat but not a good tactic to pass solid legislation. Bob’s made this point about 60 votes consistently, and he has yet to be proven wrong.

  • http://CMLA CMLA

    Dont the Republicans only need 50 votes to pass somthing?

  • kansasdem

    You can’t crack that nut because you have an actual working brain!Already one comment, “Dont the Republicans only need 50 votes to pass somthing?”I seem to remember Biden once stopping just short of saying “because they’re assholes” describing that scenario but on the Daily Show just recently he said more aptly that we Dems have a truly diverse majority!Like it or not we have the congress-folks we have! Only the electorate in each state can change that. So, if you want to blame someone don’t blame Obama!Blame the ass-hats that elected Lieberman, Ben Nelson, etc, etc! Those are the same ass-hats that gave us two terms of GW as POTUS!If you’re a Dem and you ever sat on your ass instead of voting then blame yourself too!

  • Hielo

    Matt, my post was sarcasm.I have read a bit about the reconciliation process. My conclusion is that Elvis and Redmond would have to live blog the process or I could go nuts.CMLA, you’re being sarcastic, right?

  • roxsteady

    When the Republicans passed the Bush tax cuts, was that through reconciliation? I thought I read somewhere that twice, Bush passed legislation with 54 and 50 something votes? I don’t remember the article stating that that both were through reconciliation. Or maybe both were tax cuts? If this is true and one of those times it wasn’t something that was a bugitary issue like a tax cut, then why can’t Reid do the same. In other words, what could the Republicans do if the Dems passed healthcare with just 56 or 54 votes? What the hell could they do about it if they’ve done it themselves in the past? If anyone knows the answer to this, please enlighten me?

  • roxsteady

    I just read a column on firedoglake.com by David Dayen about the idiot that is Ben Nelson and it’s given me an idea. Nelson suggestion on paying for the troop increase – “Issue War Bonds”. David crushes that piece of stupidity but, I thought, why not use this opportunity to play some real hardball?Since Congress has to approve this, Progressives should inform Reid, Nelson, Lincoln, Landreau, and that dick Liebermann that they will go along with this request for troops in exchange for a strong public option, no opt ins or outs, no triggers. Or maybe even Medicaid for all. Take it or leave it! This might seem extreme but, Americans are dying here everday too. This would also tech those duplicitous fuckers what real leverage is!

  • jane
  • jane
  • ceu

    sigh. It takes only 51 votes to pass legislation. It takes 60 to bring the bill to a vote – called cloture – because the GOP keeps threatening to filibuster. The reason the GOP could pass bills more easily is that Dems didn’t threaten to filibuster everything & they didn’t have 60 votes to prevent cloture.Bills passed via reconciliation EXPIRE. While we could get HCR in the short-term, it would have to be renewed – just like the Patriot Act had to be as well as the BushCo tax cuts.

  • jhw22

    We need an asterisk and one of those cross things and one of those double-cross things. We have a lot of disclaimers in our party.Jennifer

  • Hielo

    ceuThe future expiration of the bill is a negative. But I am confident that once a real PO was in place, there is no way it would not be extended. Think Medicare or Social security (yawn).Isn’t the process the real problem? This is a complicated piece of legislation and the assholes are lined up to deal with each element in the same teabagger fashion.Answer please. Thanks

  • jane

    This doesn’t look like an open thread. Am I wrong?

  • Kat

    I dunno, Jane. Sorta feelin’ like an open thread. What do you think?

  • jane

    I like pie.

  • Kat

    I love me some BHO, but these first few minutes feel like some serious Bushian 9/11 “Go us!” hooey.

  • veralynn

    I think the President looks tired. I cannot imagine the shit he has to deal with, without the wars, congress and the recession. why would anyone want that job? thanks the gods he did.feels like an open thread.(the way he says taliban is funny)

  • jane

    D’ya ever pinch yourself and think, “my god, as fucked up as this country is, we elected a sentient being president last year! (And has anyone noticed he’s black??)”

  • jane

    Myra, “tollybon” always reminds me of this song (caution: contains muppets).

  • Kat

    I like how he basically said, “You know all that shit goin’ on over there? Yea, the other dude fucked that up. And it’s taken me a while to think about how to fix his shit.”

  • ceu

    Hielo, the original Medicare bill wasn’t enacted thru reconciliation. The Senate version passed by 47 votes.

  • jane

    Wait, are there teleprompters all around the room? [head asplodes]

  • Kat

    Damn. Another year and a half. Damn.

  • jane

    Hey, could we just send Monsanto over to Iran or Pakistan? Wait, I don’t wish that on anyone.

  • Hielo

    ceu, sorry for the confusion but my reference was to the viability of ending these popular programs once they were in place and made better.Seriously, what about reconciliation as a real process for HCR?Man, I like our President. What a great speaker. Convincing. Real. We are so damn lucky.

  • jane

    Local news survey, pre-speech: 75% against escalation.

  • ceu

    My point, Hielo, is that it would have to be renewed, probably before it’s fully implemented, possibly by a Congress where the Dems aren’t the majority. That’s a whole different ball game than a Congress having to vote to repeal it.And I HATE this. I don’t want any more young men & women sent to Afghanistan. I want them home NOW. And damn, but he sounds reasonable about it – and knows how to pronounce Karachi.

  • http://oneceltsview.blogspot.com/ Wolfe_Tone

    It doesn’t matter how you garnish it.Afghanistan’s still a shit sandwich.

  • jane

    How will they spin this? HOW WILL THEY SPIN THIS?? Has he mentioned baby-killing yet?

  • Kat

    No baby-killing, but he hasn’t mentioned God!! Which obviously means he’s a muslim Satan.

  • http://oneceltsview.blogspot.com/ Wolfe_Tone

    I am pretty sure he’s already recommended the Fellowes Office Equipment Foetus Shredder 500, Jane.

  • jane

    Well, there’s your god. Too little, too late?No wonder the audience looked so solemn. They’re on their way over.

  • Kat

    Damn, what a speech. What a treat to listen to a president who intelligently lays out his thought processes and plan, even if I totally disagree with him.

  • jane

    MCCAIN FOR THE SPIN! Job done, but fuck withdrawals. Success causes withdrawals. Or something.

  • Kat

    Why do we care what John McCain thinks about anything? Last war he fought, HE LOST!!!!

  • http://oneceltsview.blogspot.com/ Wolfe_Tone

    Yeah. No grins in THAT audience.

  • jane

    It’s aaaaalll about the fucking signals. And we didn’t signal anything in Iraq? WTF were all yall bitching about then?

  • Kat

    Wait…is McCain saying that we’ve left Iraq? Because I’m pretty sure we’ve still got a few troops there.

  • jane

    (Can you even imagine Bush giving a surge speech to those on their way over?)

  • jane

    Awesome! NBC now joins The Biggest Loser. Wait, didn’t McCain just speak?? AHAHAHA

  • El Mystico

    Also John McCain hates earmarks! Mavrik!

  • veralynn

    jeepers I missed the whole speech….goddamn it.I am glad I missed President McCain.

  • veralynn

    did he say how we are going to pay for this? will there be more oversight with contracts?

  • Hielo

    VeraThe speech was classic Obama.I sent him an email today with all of the “don’t do it” stuff I could think of (knowing the deal was already done).Still, could he be right here?

  • roxsteady

    I was trolling a site where I go to taunt teabaggers and saw a story about O’Reilly saying that the speech was no Gettysburg Address so, and Chris Matthews not getting a thrill so, I sprung into smug action with this pithy piece of eat this shit burger prose:It’s sad that O’Reilly, Matthews and several other commentators have complained about the speeches lack of historical style, whether it’s the Gettysburg Address or the cartoonish, cowboy up buffoonery that was the Bush administration. War is a serious matter and this setting and tone was just right. Unlike the commentators, my interest in the speech wasn’t how he said it, but what he said. I’m not concerned with aesthetics. This country is still in deep financial trouble and jobs are still scarce. As the President stated, we’ve already spent 1 Trillion on these 2 wars. I’m thrilled that he’s laid down a timeline. We can’t stay there forever and the people of Afghanistan have to take responsibility for their country. I was against escalation but, because the President has placed an expiriation date on this, I’m happy about that.I’m sure the teabaggers are pelting me with all kinds of spittle. I think I’ll go take a look!