Boxer Goes There

Posted on 12/08/2009 at 9:17 am by Bob Cesca

Senator Boxer hits back at the impotent white man’s club and their healthcare hypocrisy:

BOXER: There’s nothing in this amendment that says if a man some days wants to buy Viagra, for example, that his pharmaceutical coverage cannot cover it, that he has to buy a rider. I wouldn’t support that. And they shouldn’t support going after a woman using her own private funds for her reproductive health care. Is it fair to say to a man you’re going to have to buy a rider to buy Viagra and this will be public information that could be accessed? No, I don’t support that. I support a man’s privacy, just as I support a woman’s privacy.

Again, it’s worth noting that Viagra — a chemically induced erection — was covered by Medicare until around 2007.

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  • http://broadwaycarl.blogspot.com Broadway Carl

    I do love me some Boxer. And speaking of Viagra, I was watching the Sally Field Boniva osteoporosis medication commercial yesterday and thought, “Boniva. Now THAT’S the name that should have been used instead of Viagra.”

  • http://nanotyrnns.blogspot.com/ Nanotyrannus

    Sounds sort of like a greeting, like “Boniva! Welcome to my pants!”

  • Anne

    Woo-hoo! I love my senator!

  • eve

    And don’t forget Senator Mikulski!U.S. Senator Barbara Mikulski is disgusted with the Nelson Amendment and she is letting everyone know it. “[This bill] allows women to purchase an abortion rider. Oh, boy. Is this supposed to be big deal? Is this supposed to be the kind of thing that’s supposed to make us happy? What an insulting, humiliating thing to say: if you want an abortion, go buy a rider.”and more from the good Senator:SO, YOUSEE, IN THIS BILL I BELIEVE THAT SUPPORTING SCREENING FORDIABETES IS PRO-LIFE, CERVICAL CANCER SCREENING IS PRO-LIFE.BUT MOST OF ALL, IF YOU WANT PEOPLE TO HAVE HEALTHYPREGNANCIES, HEALTHY CHILDBIRTH, HEALTHY BABIES, THEY NEEDACCESS TO HEALTH CARE. SO THAT’S WHY I SAY THAT VOTING FORUNIVERSAL ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE IS AS PRO-LIFE AS YOU CAN BE.

  • eve

    AND HOW ABOUT WHY NOT HAVE MEN BUY AN ABORTION RIDER FOR THEWOMEN THEY GET PREGNANT.Mikulski is great!

  • jhw22

    Rider, Viagra and Boniva. This thread of full of potential. I just can’t seem to rise to the occasion. ;) Jennifer

  • http://politicalpartypooper.wordpress.com/ Political Party Pooper

    I’m sure I will be called a caveman here, but in watching Anderson Cooper’s visit to Planned Parenthood last night, i was struck by the one question he DIDN’T ask, which was,”And how many of these abortions are for sheer birth control after someone (insert favorite male name here) forgot to bring a rubber?”Second question not asked:”How many have had more than one?”We can talk about paying for abortions all you like, and using “healthcare” as an excuse. But am I wrong in assuming that most abortions are necessary because neither party could be bothered to use a contraceptive? A one dollar device designed to help protect against unwanted pregnancies and VD?Maybe that’s a cold way to look at this, but why should we use Federal dollars to provide abortions for men and women who aren’t willing to take responsibility for their own actions, especially when they have such a cheap way of preventing it in the first place?For the single mothers, let’s find the responsible man, and make that fucker pay.

  • Alan4s

    Maybe that’s a cold way to look at this, but why should we use Federal dollars to provide abortions for men and women who aren’t willing to take responsibility for their own actions, especially when they have such a cheap way of preventing it in the first place?

    Because it’s more expensive not to.

    For the single mothers, let’s find the responsible man, and make that fucker pay.

    Popular opinion, has some merit, but completely unrealistic.

  • jhw22

    @PPP, there’s really nothing like taking a fraction of cases and basing an entire perspective around it. Perhaps you can spend some time at http://www.guttmacher.org/ and read everything on abortion: the hows, the why’s, the when’s, the who’s. You may be well-served to have more than assumptions and generalizations at your disposal.Jennifer

  • camel54

    Nano, Boniva! Welcome to my pants! I nearly plotzed. True story.PPP, I actually agree with you here to some degree. I think you’re right, it is a personal responsibility failing. The place where I have to step away is where and how do we draw that line? Do we punish the people who struggle with the decision and finally decide to go through with it for reasons they may not want to share and are only there because their birth control failed?There are so many levels to unwanted pregnancy that aren’t as cut and dry as rape = ok to abort and pleasure = not okay to abort. Still, I completely agree that it appears as though the majority of procedures is still a result of carelessness and that’s sad and unfortunate.To me it is disgusting that we can even be considering this restrictive language be included in this bill when the procedure is still legal. No one was concerned about those folks who were morally outraged that their tax dollars were (and are) going to fund an illegal war and the criminal private companies waging it. Illegal war death is okay as long as it looks patriotic. Legal procedure destroying cells not okay because conservatives say so. It’s all ridiculous.

  • http://nanotyrnns.blogspot.com/ Nanotyrannus

    Nice try, PPP, but remember that the men in these situations will almost never bear any of the responsibility for any of their actions. They wont be expected to pay for a condom, they wont be expected to pay for an abortion and they wont be expected to support whatever child results if we prevent women from having an abortion. Men can just walk away and leave everything to the woman. And as much as Republicans moan and groan about “personal responsibility”, very few, if any at all, actually practice it.Denying federal dollars for an abortion will not make people that use abortion as a contraceptive suddenly wake up and reevaluate their lives. It will, however, restrict access for women that might actually have a need for such services.And doesn’t this sort of amendment sound suspiciously like, oh I don’t know, the government stepping in and telling your doctor what kind of services he can perform? I thought these guys hated that stuff? I thought Republicans didn’t want government coming between you and your doctor? Hmmm…

  • jhw22

    Here is a particularly interesting study on the complexities of why some people do not use contraception. It’s far more complicated than just not using a condom or the pill.http://www.guttmacher.org/media/nr/2008/09/08/index.htmlThis is why women, especially lower-income women and girls, need as much discussion as possible about sex and pregnancy and family and self-esteem, and reality. It can’t just be about condoms and it can’t just be about abstinance. It’s about the whole package. ;) Jennifer

  • Gargoyle

    Re: comments by PPPSo, by that logic, we should not cover any expenses for diabetes care, powered wheelchairs, etc. for someone because they couldn’t be bothered to put down the pork rinds, turn of the TV, and take a walk. The extrapolation of this line of reasoning is that everyone is responsible for themself, and if they have a problem, too bad, they just need to suck it up and deal with it on their own. Where the hell do you think we are right now? And just look how well that’s working. We help people because they need it, we know how to do it, and frankly it winds up being cheaper in the long run.

  • ec

    Thanks Jennifer. I posted that website for PPP a couple of weeks ago and he apparently has not bothered to look at it.The website did say that a good proportion of women that have abortions already have children.That got me thinking about a study that I saw a few years back that said that a significant number of women who have abortions are in their forties. They though that they had gone through menopause, had discontinued their birth control, and got pregnant.I’ve looked for the study recently and can’t find it. Have you seen it?

  • bibimimi

    State-sanctioned old man boners are too awful to think about. Get a young, fertile hottie in the stirrups, we’ll spelunk the hell outta that cave.You wanted ur freedom, u dirty feministas. There’s a price to be paid.

  • jhw22

    @Gargoyle, I was just thinking the same thing.@ec, great minds think alike. That study sounds familiar, I’ll let you know if I find it.@bibimimi, really? wow.Jennifer

  • Irish Girl

    @Jhw22 bibimimi is being snarky@PPP WTF! Whoever said that the majority of abortions are because they simply chose not to use a condom!?! I’ve never, ever seen a study that says this…..

  • bibimimi

    Thank u, irish girl. Yes, I was channeling a shaved a-hole dipped in rubbing alcohol, jhw22.Too many smelly old men remembering their dear, sainted mother, and wanting her pain for ALL u dumb broads out there.Don’t ask where the bottom is…u will only be shocked and saddened.

  • eve

    Federal money doesn’t pay for abortions.Mostly because old and young men in congress don’t think anyone should have an abortion. Women are only supposed to have sex in order to procreate and if the men in congress and elsewhere screw a single woman or a woman married to someone else and she gets pregnant it is her fault for being a sinner. And she must suffer the consequences. But the men are just doing what comes naturally. So king’s X for them.Apologies to all the men who are not neanderthals.But this shit about who DESERVES an abortion (must not ever be for BIRTH CONTROL!) is just that — a bunch of shit.What happens in the doctor’s office is none of your damn business. No matter how many abortions a woman has. No matter why.You don’t want ANY abortions for the WRONG reasons? Then all the men can just keep their pants zipped.the end of rant

  • bibimimi

    “For the single mothers, let’s find the responsible man, and make that fucker pay.”Christ. Meanwhile the 2nd and 3rd trimester pops up, and then it’s too goddamned late, and ethically unsound [putting it politely].

  • brutlyhonest

    Birth control can, does, fail.

    Of course, this is all irrelevant since (a) teh jeebus thinks it’s evil to use birth control (so says teh popes) and (2) kids won’t have sex unless you teach them about BC.

    But if teh gawdz makes you impotent or barren, teh science needs to step in and save you.

  • jhw22

    @bibimimi, Phew! I guess I haven’t been here long enough to distinguish who is snarky and who isn’t. Thank goodness I held back or I would have made a huge ass out of myself.Jennifer

  • http://broadwaycarl.blogspot.com Broadway Carl

    @brutly – re: teh gawdz and teh scienceActually, not in all cases. My wife and I have a friends who wanted to have kids, she is Catholic, he is Presbyterian(?) Anyway, they had trouble conceiving and went to a fertility doctor who suggested in vitro. They of course thought they should have some religious counseling and while the Catholic priest gave the “its God’s will”, it’s meant to be, suck it up speech, the Presbyterian minister told them it was in the right spirit and supported them.They now have beautiful twin boys. Also, while the priest barely showed up while she was in the hospital, the minister was constantly there for support. Another reason I’m a former Catholic.The weird thing is, if the religious reason to get married is to go forth and procreate, then what’s the fucking point if you can’t conceive? What a backward ass way of thinking these Catholics have.

  • http://broadwaycarl.blogspot.com Broadway Carl

    Didn’t mean to go off thread, so BOOOOO! Nelson Amendment! HISSSSSSS! BOOOOO!

  • eljefejeff

    I’ve been blasted for this before, but I still don’t understand why it’s any kind of inherent right to have abortions covered by insurance, OR viagra for that matter. But let’s be clear, they aren’t the same thing.Viagra is akin to birth control pills. They both allow men and women the opportunity to enjoy sexually active lifestyles. That’s all. Abortions are another issue entirely. They kill. I don’t think they should be illegal for the first 4 months or so, but it does kill a humanlike creature with a heartbeat. Some people don’t have a problem with that. I do, but I understand women will get them whether or not they’re illegal, and they may as well be given a safe option to do so. Plus, I’d prefer an aborted fetus to an unwanted child.

  • eve

    well, eljefejeff — it’s because YOU don’t get to decide about medical procedures for other people.That’s it. There are lots of reasons for abortions and you don’t get to make this decision for other people.Just like they don’t get to look over your medical bills and decide what is or isn’t okay.

  • http://politicalpartypooper.wordpress.com/ Political Party Pooper

    Yes, because unwanted children are evil.Just kidding eljefe.Jennifer, that study was done on 36 people, and good god, if it’s all about sexual arousal and the “chance” of getting pregnant making your experience more pleasurable, then I have a serious problem with abortion in those cases.You do realize that a potential human being is being killed in abortion, right? More than that, every opportunity that human being will ever have is being killed; and that’s happening right here, in the good old USA, Land of Opportunity.That article, Jennifer, is the prime example of why I hate abortion when used as a contraceptive. “Wouldn’t it be wonderful, ecstatically orgasmic even, if we could have sex when there was a chance we could get pregnant? We could always abort the little beast”.It is that cavalier attitude toward life that makes abortion seem like a good means of birth control.I invite you to visit a site as well:http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.htmlThe vast amount of abortions are for birth control.I see no end to that in sight, ever.From that article:”Each year, about two percent of women aged 15-44 have an abortion; 47% of them have had at least one previous abortion.”The statistics are mind-numbing. So much so that it is breaking my heart.My daughter was an unwanted pregnancy. We sucked it up, got married, and delivered her. We got divorced ten years later. She’s seventeen. She’s well-adjusted, and definitely WANTED, and knows it. I can’t imagine life without her.I don’t have an answer for unwanted pregnancies that fits everybody. But it seems to me that we use abortion way too frequently, and way too easily. No, it doesn’t “seem” that way; it IS that way, the statistics prove it.Like I said, I don’t have an answer that fits everybody. But I am pretty damned sure that abortion isn’t the right answer, either.

  • eljefejeff

    eve, don’t pull that shit with me. I never suggested I get to make decisions for anyone else. I stated my opinions, but the one question I asked in relation to Bob’s post, was why is it any kind of right to have abortions covered by insurance? If it is covered, fine, but if its inclusion ends up killing a good health care bill, and elective abortions have to be paid for out of pocket, then I’m fine with that too. If that’s a problem for you, then take the steps to assure you don’t need one. If you are careful and you get pregnant anyway, sorry….that’s the risk and I don’t see why I should have to pay for it. But again, if insurance companies offer it, I have no problem with that either. I just can understand why other people do have a problem with it.Abortion is not just your run of the mill operation. It is a very shady gray issue. Like it or not, millions of people believe it is murder. I’m not one of them, but I think it’s a valid point. Would you not agree that aborting a healthy fetus 8 1/2 months into pregnancy would be pretty much the same as killing a newborn right out of the birth canal? There is a line where it changes from abortion to murder. I don’t know where that line is, but my opinion is that it’s somewhere in the second trimester. If there is a legitimate medical reason for the abortion, there shouldn’t be an issue at all.

  • jhw22

    @PPP, it’s going to be hard to have a real discussion when you want to select parts and grossly misrepresent them as the focus of your argument.The point of this small sampling shows that even in a small group of women there are a variety of reasons for the inability to grasp the long-term consequences of unprotected sex. Imagine the endless possibilities for unintended pregnancies when you multiply this group by the number of unintended pregnancies in the US and worldwide.The study shows that FOR SOME when the hormones are raging and the moment is there, rationality goes out the window. Denying that reality by saying putting a condom on doesn’t always solve the root problem. Our bodies were created to procreate and expecting a man or a woman to think about the consequences takes more than a slogan or a free condom. THAT was my point. The point is we need to educate and counsel young women and men thoroughly so they have the preparation for those moments. So they can see the future and be able to apply that preparation to the moment when their bodies want to take over.I don’t like the “we use abortion as birth control” too frequently argument. I think it belittles what women go through when they are pregnant and have to make a choice. It brushes aside the emotions, hormones, financial and social stresses she goes through. I don’t think it’s fair to any woman to assume any woman carelessly gets an abortion. Whatever her reasons, I do not think characteriazing a view on abortion based on a presumed generalization jives with reality.I get annoyed by people who are so anti-abortion but don’t spend energy on raising money for or volunteering for programs that will prevent unwanted pregnancies. Often, hyperbole about “it’s used as birth control” gets in the way of real contribution. I’d like to see more men counseling boys about the conseqences instead of pickting at a clinic. I’d like to see more women counseling girls than scaring the shit out of them at a clinic.I know three women, of three generations, who had abortions. My grandparents drove one to Mexico in the 60′s. Another woman had one in the 70′s post-Roe v Wade and another had one in the 90′s. Each one of those women was at a different stage in her life and each one struggled with her decision and hate that they were in the position to make the decision. But each one has no regrets about her choice. For the same reason you cherish your daughter, the women I know cherish the lives they have that they wouldn’t have had had they made a different choice.I can respect your view against abortion. I just think you’re basing it on the most gereralized straw women assumptions.

  • jhw22

    @eljefejeff, Before I can even comment on the 8 1/2 month healthy baby being aborted question, can you please provide valid sources reporting when, how, why, that has ever happened? I am not being snarky. I seriously want to know where these cases are discussed in places other than Bill O. I think there are urban legends out there about these cases but I do not believe they exist — at least not in the case that a legitmate doctor would perform an abortion of a health, self-sustaining baby. If anything, they would lie to the mom and give the baby up for adoption. Seriously, do you have any cases you can site?Thanks,Jennifer

  • ec

    Wasn’t Roe v. Wade about first trimester abortions? Why are we talking about 8 1/2 month old fetuses?If the conversation has devolved into hyperventilating exaggeration and fantasy, I’m out.Good luck with this Jennifer. You are a better woman than me.

  • eljefejeff

    Jennifer, I don’t know if there have been any abortions at that point. I thought my point was obvious but I guess not. I said abortion is a gray issue with no clear line between abortion and murder. I was saying that even pre-birth, for example at 8.5 months, it can be considered murder, and if that’s the case, you can see why some take it all the way back to conception. I DON’T AGREE WITH THAT SENTIMENT AND I NEVER SAID I DID.All of a sudden I feel like the women on here are coming down on me for expressing sympathy for a fetus. Honestly that hurts.

  • ec

    eljefejeff, no one knows when “life begins”. That is why the Supreme Court decided when it legally begins for this one issue.If you, and everyone else that doesn’t know but has an “opinion”, want to criticize the law, fight the law, try to overturn the law, go for it.But, this is an end run around the law and that is underhanded and sleazy and lazy and careless.

  • jhw22

    @eljefejeff, Sorry I wasn’t clear when I tried to imply I wasn’t coming down on you. I genuinely wanted to see where those abortions happen. In fact, I didn’t read all of yours or eve’s comments because I saw 8 1/2 and read that portion. I wanted clarification before I went any further so I wouldn’t jump all over you.You said, “Would you not agree that aborting a healthy fetus 8 1/2 months into pregnancy would be pretty much the same as killing a newborn right out of the birth canal? There is a line where it changes from abortion to murder.” And I am saying that is a line that doesn’t exist so the analogy is irrelevent no matter who uses it.I am not, nor would I ever, judge a person for feeling life begins at a different time than I believe it does. That is why I specifically asked about that example you gave. Perhaps if you hadn’t gone to such an extreme place as your example, I could have addressed other things you said. But I really had to understand that first.The reason people (not you) make that argument about a later term baby versus a 10-week old fetus, for example, is to create an image in a woman’s head of an “it-could-live-outside-the-womb baby” instead of an actual “as-likely-to-be-miscarried-as-it-is-to-grow-and-would-never-survive-outside-the-womb fetus”. So I can’t go from killing a baby fresh out of the womb to killing a 8 1/2 gestational baby to a 10-week old fetus because it just doesn’t happen and my brain can’t try to articulate what I think about it.But what I think doesn’t matter anyway. Obama got in trouble for saying the determination of when life begins is above his paygrade. But he was right — he meant that this is not something humans can ever really know with certainty. We may know when the life functions start but is that life? I don’t know.I guess I should add that it hurts me a little, as well, that when women try to defend another woman’s right to choose, somehow we lack sympathy. I had a miscarriage at 10 weeks. It was the worst day of my life and I knew it was coming for days and I couldn’t do anything about it because I was out of town at my grandfather’s memorial. I grieved for my own loss and for what could have been. A year later I became a mom and having gone through a full pregnancy I learned that the loss of a 10-week old fetus would have not compared to losing a baby in the third trimester. For me personally, I felt that there wasn’t lost life in the miscarried baby just a lost future. Women who fight for a woman’s right to choose doesn’t think about one person. She thinks about the mom, too. Often the mom is vilified and accused of not caring. That’s just not true or fair. So someone has to think about her and perhaps that’s the job of other women.I’ll stop here because I don’t want to delve into the rest of what you said because I am obviously not coming across the way I intend tonight and I don’t want a rational conversation to snowball into further perceived attacks.Jennifer

  • eljefejeff

    Jennifer, it’s ok. I appreciate you clarifying. My wife had a miscarriage too at around 10 weeks. That was the saddest day of our lives, and even though we are both strongly pro-choice, we both said things like “I can’t believe people do this on purpose.”But she too got pregnant again and had a baby the following year, then another 2 years later. We look at the miscarriage as positive in a way, since we otherwise wouldn’t have the two kids we have now. Not that it makes it any less sad.As far as the 8.5 weeks, ok then 8 months, or 7 months, or 6 months….at some point there have been abortions, legal or not, that were done on a fetus that could have survived outside the mom, albeit with tubes and incubators….Personally I find the whole thing sick but almost every female in my immediate family has had an abortion and they’re all good women who are now moms, and I’ve never been in that situation, so I won’t judge.

  • jhw22

    @eljefejeff, I agree that my miscarriage means I have this little boy. I can’t imagine any other child in my life. So that means that the miscarriage gave me my little boy in a roundabout way.I think the reason some women “can” (I say that in quotes because just because the do doesn’t mean it’s easy) go through that is the major difference that you wanted yours like I wanted mine. When you find out you’re going to have a baby and you are so happy and ready to buy the onesies and decorate a room, you are going to respond far differently than someone who wasn’t happy and ready for the news. I just try to remind people that not all women played Russian roulette and I try, if I am going to have a straw woman, to remember the women whose BC failed, or as mentioned earlier women who think they couldn’t conceive do or the many other reasons that women have. We have to personalize women otherwise we cause serious disrespect of all women who makes this choice. I would rather blanket with respect than with the other.Yes, there should be a line. But who draws that line and who forces a woman to use her body for something against her will?I’m not sure if you were being ironic when you said you find the whole thing “sick” and then said you won’t judge. Hmmmmm. ;) Jennifer

  • eljefejeff

    no Jennifer, no irony intended. The abortion procedure is just plain gross, in every aspect. In most cases, it represents a serious lapse in judgment on the part of two people. I know some used birth control and got pregnant. If they would rather get the abortion than raise it themselves or put it up for adoption, it seems reasonable to me. I’d like to think I wouldn’t make that decision, but then I’ll never have to so it’s easy for me to say. I guess my personal opinion on the subject is that I wish no one would get one, but since so many do get one, abortion clinics should be legal.I can’t imagine why any woman would take the chance of not using birth control if she isn’t ready to be pregnant. I used to make dumb decisions all the time and had to pay the price in different ways, so I can’t judge anyone who does that. Unfortunately many of them are teenagers who haven’t yet thought through the consequences, and thanks to religious conservatives, many of them are never taught the risks or given access to birth control in the first place.But hey, this subject is above my pay grade too :)

  • jhw22

    @eljefejeff, Ergh!! Apparently processing what I wrote is above your paygrade as well. ;) I am not trying to convince you one way or another on abortion, but I tried really hard to articulate the complexities and varieties of a woman’s reasons and you went and made the same generic generalizations all over again.I like you, man, but geez louise!! Can’t you at least try to absorb what I wrote? Ergh ergh ergh!!Jennifer

  • eljefejeff

    Ha Jennifer, yeah I tend to frustrate people, sorry about that. I did absorb what you wrote, I just didn’t want to acknowledge it. :) I like you too, maybe cuz it appears we have the same initials (JW?)

  • jhw22

    Well, JW, you must know that I expect all people to absorb and acknowledge my greatness. Please make a note for later.Fondly,JW