Enough!

What happens to people under 55? Can we buy in?

The public option is now about to be dropped completely. Thank you very fucking much, Harry Reid.

No public option now, wow.My condolences to my American friends.

Yeah but I thought insurance wouldn’t be able to deny you for pre-existing conditions under the new plan? Guess that idea is being dropped to.Also think about it. People 55 and over are typically the higher cost customers for insurance companies. Now they will be able to deny them and push them into Medicare. Another fucking hand out to big insurance.

Just heard any form of public option is officially dead, but they’re being “mum” about it until the “new” plan is rated by the CBO.I can already tell you it’ll cost more, it’ll provide less, and most importantly perhaps – this will end Democratic control of congress for at least a generation!Great work fuck heads!

PO out according to CNN.House Dems won’t buy this.Thanks Harry. So my question is what now? Do they really think they can force us to buy from the ins. robbers-er- companies?I think not.I’m pretty sick about this.

According to Reuters, and they are quoting Harry Reid, the public option was not dropped.If folks will be able to get Medicare at 55, and the unemployed (and under employed) will be covered under Medicaid, that sounds like it will cover a lot of people that wouldn’t get helped under that bullshit public option that left after all of the stripping down. Am I misunderstanding?

The AP story says:Additionally, the tentative deal calls for Medicare to be opened to uninsured Americans beginning at age 55…So it looks like they’re saying that only those over 55 who haven’t had insurance for a while can get Medicare. So if you’re 55 & have insurance but are paying out the ass, you’re still screwed.I cannot believe that this will stand. It does not fulfill the guidelines that Obama set put in the Sept. speech to Congress.And Reid is denying the PO has been dropped.

Harry Reid said the PO was not dropped. Wait and see folks.

Since I’m hearing that whatever was decided in the ‘Gang of 10′ is off to the CBO for a couple of days for scoring, I have to believe that there’s a general agreement in principle.However, there must be some differences that are being left to the scoring to decide. Could be they are looking for the best result/lowest costs, could be they are looking to see if certain proposals will work within the $900 billion threshold the President targeted at the outset.Meanwhile, brace for a couple of days of rumors and general insanity.

let’s not jump to conclusions. ultimately this is about cutting costs and expanding access to coverage for those who don’t have it, right? Whatever plan they come up with will be ok with me if it meets those criteria

The problem here is President Obama’s lack of leadership. Reid pushed for a public option more than Obama did.Sorry but it’s exactly what I’ve been saying for months.

It’s gonna be triggered.With the trigger…. “hard to pull”.

“…The problem here is President Obama’s lack of leadership…” Posted by: Stranahan

Wow. Here’s some new and original thinking from the original defeatist convinced that a little “pushback” is all it would take.

And eljefe – it’s not going to cut costs. It’s going to ‘expand’ coverage the same way shotgun weddings would ‘expand’ marriage.This predictable outcome is why I said kill the bill. It’s NOT better when taken as a whole and when you factor in who will really benefit – the insurance industry – it’s worse.

hey Cody. I was right. Deal with it. It wasn’t defeatist – it was accurate. Note that Obama dropped any talk of the PO in his Sunday speech to the Senate much to the delight of Lieberman.The White House is the problem. Always has been. You can’t possibly be in such complete denial to still not see that. Or can you?

I’m sure as hell not seeing the single payer system you and Max Adams were still so optimistic about… supposedly achievable with a lil “pushback”.And dumping it altogether would ruin Dems for another 15-20yrs before we get another chance up to the reform plate. No, I’m clear on whose in denial here, my friend. You were far from “right all along”.It is what it is…Democrats Agree Tentatively Trade Opt-Out For Trigger, Medicare Buy In, And More

I’m with Lee on this. The White House doesn’t want the public option and I have no idea why. I would like to think that the President has a big plan where he gives on health care and takes on something even more important. But, I can’t think of anything more important than health care.I don’t want to be disappointed in Obama, but he could have done a whole lot more and he chose not to, so I am.Disappointed and confused.

I was pushing for a Public Option, not Single Payer – just go back and watch my videos.The White House fucked this up by not standing for anything. Pushback by progressives is the only thing that kept the PO alive as long as it was…Now it’s time for MASSIVE pushback against the White House and I sure hope Bob is prepared to join in. Tomorrow is his usual HuffPost column – he’s got the audience – please, Bob….use that power to help let the President Obama know that this is unacceptable.

Lee, I hope Bob doesn’t take your advice. We don’t yet know the details of this plan. Enough with the kneejerk reactions. I do agree though, Obama has not led on this and he should have from the beginning. I’m pretty sure the reason is that he didn’t want to fail on it. If congress failed, I guess he figured that wouldn’t be as bad as HIM failing. Whatever reason, it is disappointing.However, from what I’m reading, this doesn’t seem so bad. It seems there will be a trigger which was our big fear but it would allow buying into Medicare early and offer uninsured Americans the same plan our congress gets which everyone has been saying all along is such a great plan, and it being their plan, they’ll make sure it is good for everyone. So basically this is a pretty big step UP from the trigger.

Where is this bill a path to?One of the strongest arguments for a public option is that it’s a path to the Single Payer that all the data shows is better.This bill is a path to the complete entrenchment of a private industry in a way the Republicans would never have dreamt of.After months of being called ‘kneejerk’ – go back and look. I (and many others) were right about where this was headed. And therefore, maybe you should stop and reconsider whether you were right before making predictions about how great this will be.

where we were headed, Lee, was a trigger at best. Buying into Medicare is a path to Medicare for all, at least that’s my hope. But I’m an optimist and you’re a pessimist. That’s ok, the world needs both of us.

Okay, so I have a few questions after reading Cody’s link.Medicare eligibility age reduced to 55 immediately but no subsidies to help pay for it for three years. This seems to me to be better than waiting until 2013 for the exchange, no?”A version” of the Federal Employee Health Benefits plan will be included in the exchange. Isn’t this the talking point we’ve all used at one point or another? “Why can’t I have the the same health insurance congress gets?”A national public option will be triggered (unfortunately) if insurance companies don’t offer “nationally-based non-profit insurance plans” in every state. Is this a positive thing? If big insurance doesn’t come through with a non-profit option, then the trigger kicks in.This doesn’t include ending rescission, denying insurance to those with pre-existing conditions, removing payout caps, etc.And all of this is out the window if the CBO comes back with a negative rating. We’ve all been moaning how they’ve bastardized the public option to the point of uselessness. Isn’t this better?

“The problem here is President Obama’s lack of leadership. Reid pushed for a public option more than Obama did.Sorry but it’s exactly what I’ve been saying for months.

You know, when I started reading the comments I wondered how long it would be before you chimed in with your fucking “I told you so” bullshit. We may be fucked and all you can do is gloat. Well, sit off in a corner and smugly mumble to yourself about how dead on about this you were. The rest of us will be fighting this.

You need to have your fucking head examined – I was right. What am I supposed to do? Pretend I was wrong? Pretend I’m shocked by this? And why? Because you were wrong – totally wrong about Obama’s support for the public option the entire time? It hurts your wittle feewings?Too bad. If I HAD been wrong, I’m sure you’d be gloating from here to kingdom come. But you weren’t correct, were you?And if we’re fucked it’s people like YOU, dear Nano, who did by being in denial about this whole damn process for so long. It’s not because of people like me who were sounding the alarm despite the shrill bullshit of the likes of you.So – you idiot…YOU go to the corner and shut the fuck up. You were trying to shut me up for telling the truth. Now that the truth is almost impossible to deny, the least you can do is keep your totally inaccurate, deluded opinions to yourself. I had to listen to you for too long, you asshole.

Lee, I’m trying to understand your logic. You wanted a public option, but not this one. You wanted to kill the bill because the compromises were too much. And now that it looks like the toothless public option is probably dead for something that actually might be stronger, you’re freaking out. What the fuck?

Oh, and blaming people like Nano for the problem? What did you “sounding the alarm” accomplish?

Oh it doesn’t hurt my feelings, Lee, it’s just no surprise at all. You’re right and we’re all wrong and because we haven’t joined your chorus and started lamenting our abandonment by Obama you have come unhinged. You know. The usual.You can blame me for this, or Bob, or who the fuck ever, but it gets us no closer to any goal.Shrill bullshit? Ha! My bullshit rather has a rich, full timbre…

Carl,I’m not freaked out at all. But I’ll be damned if some no cred motherfucker like Nano is going to tell me to shut up for being right.I don’t know why you’re saying ‘something stronger’ than the PO is coming. As this article from FDL discusses…http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/12/08/public-option-grand-compromise-becomes-a-grand-big-nothing/I never bought into the lie that real reform was or is impossible. The problem has been the Obama administration hoodwinking people like (sadly) Bob and many others on this site, who felt like the White House was working for the Public Option in some secret, smart, 12 level chess sort of way…when in fact, the White House was making JUST enough noises to keep people like Bob in the dark about the fact that they had no intention whatsoever of fighting for the PO when the rubber hit the road.Look – Obama is a great speaker. I voted for him and I understand not wanting to believe he’s two faced, but the evidence is very clear at this point – he says one thing in public and does another thing behind closed doors.If you’ve been saying the President is REALLY, deep down fighting for the PO…you were hoodwinked. He tricked you. Okay, admit and move the fuck on with that knowledge in place.He’s just another smooth talking politician – so treat him like one. If enough people wake up QUICKLY and tell Obama he can’t count on their vote if we can’t count on his word, he’ll listen. It’s the language politicians understand.Or – keep making excuses for him because you don’t want to admit you were wrong. Whatever – doesn’t real bother me. But denial isn’t an effective strategy.

Really, Bob? Old Man and the Sea? I was gonna say “Dante’s Inferno.”Lee – enjoy voting for Nader in 2012. Poor Obama never had a chance.

Hey Lee I read your homework link. Funny, I didn’t come away in as much despair as you might have intended. I do agree with Walker 100% that the congressmen and women opposing reform are not doing it out of ideological reasons but at the bidding of their corporate masters. I’ve always believed that. And I’ve never been so hypnotized by Obama as you portray me. Remember, I’m one of those fellas that practices the love that dare not speak it’s name and I’ve been burned by this White House and it’s lack of interest in repealing DOMA and DADT, and further outraged by it’s silence on state gay marriage proposals and Uganda’s pending legislation to impose the death penalty on men with a difference. Hell, I watched a clip of a right wing former-gay nutjob on Rachel tonight offer up more opposition to Uganda’s Gay Killing Bonanza than this White House has.But what I haven’t done is give up. Or come here to tell everyone how awfully duped they are because they don’t agree with me. Or hurl homework links from The Advocate or Savage Love at everyone so they can see how wrong they are about Obama’s supposed support of whatever. Neither have I tried to enlist Bob’s help, nor appropriate his blog, in some sort of campaign to show the world that, see, everyone’s been wrong about Obama all along!I think I’ll write some haiku…

But I’ll be damned if some no cred motherfucker like Nano is going to tell me to shut up for being rightWow. He’s got as much cred as you, Lee, perhaps more because he’s not an asshole about it.No one knows that’s in the damn bill yet – not even YOU or your precious FDL. I’m hearing lots of interpretations of the rumors floating around so how about everyone just sitting tight until the details are released.Keep in mind that this is the SENATE bill and this may be what is needed to get the damn thing voted on. It could change dramatically when it heads to the conference committee. The bill out of committee will need only 50 votes to pass the Senate & there are enough people in the House that will NOT pass a bill without a public option – so if the Dems want to accomplish real reform, a PO will be included in the final bill.Carl, you said “This doesn’t include ending rescission, denying insurance to those with pre-existing conditions, removing payout caps, etc.”It does – it’s just that those parts aren’t in contention so there was no need to deal with them on this go round. (could be that I’m reading your comment wrong & you meant that they were other ways of actually helping people…)

Full Circle?When this HCR program actually got underway, we all knew that Single Payer was the only way to get all the way there. Since we already had such a system benefitting only a very costly group (over 65), “Medicare for All” was the logical way to go and would involve a healthier demographic and, thereby, lower the costs of care.Because the health denial industry has way too much money and would obviously 1) continue bribing the politicians, and; 2) spend enormous amounts deceiving the gullible public, the idea of a “Public Option” evolved. This would allow the corrupt system to coexist with a public system until our country moved into the 21st century like the countries with a significant number of thinking people had already done.As the health denial industry had its way, and the PO slowly gave way to the machetes of the bribed assholes, the “foot-in-the-door” was the only hope we had.Now, the emerging bill seems to have a stepping stone to the big goal. A beginning. Medicare for More.Are we about to come full circle?

Stranahan:>>>>You need to have your fucking head examined – I was right. What am I supposed to do? Pretend I was wrong?I don’t know what you’re *supposed* to do, but coming here and gloating about how you were right is really arrogant and douchey.By the way, expanding Medicare eligibility is now the path to single-payer. That’s what’s come out of this bill. And the OPM plan is actually better than the public option, except for the involvement of the privates, but since it’s non-profit, their wings are clipped.Regardless, it’s clear that no matter how the president approached this legislation, the conservadems would’ve sabotaged the thing. I don’t know what you expected the president to do.

Stranahan:>>>>Now it’s time for MASSIVE pushback against the White House and I sure hope Bob is prepared to join in.Good luck with your MASSIVE pushback. Maybe you should understand the legislation before you flip your shit. I’m not going to oppose a Medicare buy-in.But what I might consider writing about is how the most productive thing to do would be to begin the grassroots process of further expanding Medicare once this bill is passed. 45-54, then 34-44, and so on until we have single-payer.Calling Obama a sell-out has had ZERO impact on the history of this legislation one way or the other. Don’t delude yourself, Lee.

No, we don’t know what the final bill will be yet, but I can guarantee that the corporate shills from the White House to the halls of Congress will give us a mostly piece of shit bill that will be a gift to their masters in the insurance and drug industries. Some people will get some coverage that couldn’t get it before, costs will keep rising, people will have to sign up for coverage, and people will keep dying for lack of care because it will take years to go into effect.The President’s lack of leadership in this has been painful to watch. It either shows that he is a lame head of state or that he is a sell out.We already know that Congress is full of sell outs, enough to have crippled this effort. There will be little done to fix the shitty bill. Do you think that Americans will elect more Democrats at this point?As long as Americans passively sit by and let the corporate world run roughshod over them, this sorry state of governance will continue. This healthcare fiasco is just one of a long list of sorry assed governing coming from both Democrats and Republicans.

Ceu- re: rescission, pre-existing conditions etc. Badly worded. I meant to say that those things are ALREADY included and we can’t lose sight of that fact. But at 2am, I was loopy and frankly, a bit tipsy.

Lee, I’ve read your FDL link and this is what jumped out at me, because we’ve all been jumping to conclusions.

Of course, negotiations are still on going, and the details are very much in flux. It is, in theory, possible that the eventual result will not be something so terrible.

I am going to wait a little longer before I give up on the Progressives at the table during this latest round of negotiations. As I said earlier, I can’t imagine this being the final outcome if the CBO takes a dump on it.

Carl I followed that link and that’s what jumped out at me too. And I wondered, why is this the one thing Lee seemed to have ignored?

Jesus Christ on a pogo stick, Bob – you STILL don’t get it?!?You’re really saying that the President being strongly in favor of a robust Public Option wouldn’t have mattered? Really? He doesn’t have any impact on the process.I wasn’t gloaty – I was saying the exact same thing I’ve said the whole time. WTF, man? Let’s be clear – you were wrong about Obama the whole time and you urged others to be patient because things would work out great. They aren’t working out the way you said they would, are they? My ‘fearmongering’ was accurate punditry. For you to continue to treat ME like the problem shows a real lack of self confidence, my friend.If YOU’D been right, I would continue to show up here and take my licks. This is a political hangout for me. Don’t act shocked that I show up just because I’m not the one who has been making false predictions for months.You were suckered by Obama, Bob. You believed them when they denied the PhARAM deal intitially. You told people to keep the faither – that Obama was really in favor of a meaningful public option. You’re carried water for this President at every turn – you need to stop. It’s embarrassing.Carl – yes, DUH – obviously it’s not ‘over’ – but my central thesis has been proven correct – the President doesn’t support the PO in any meaningful way and he never has. It was all kabuki. Now a new bill is being force fed to everyone with implications that aren’t clear…and it’s being fed to us by bought off politicians.

Lee, this whole thing about bought off politicians…it’s so old. We all know they sold a long time ago. So, given those circumstances, what’s the best we can do? Apparently this is it.

Dean, Weiner, and Sanders are somewhat pleased to very pleased on the new deal made. So I’d like to know if that changes anyone’s opinion here, especially those who have championed Dean, Weiner and Sanders?

Lee — What don’t you get about the Medicare buy-in as a path to single-payer?>>>You’re carried water for this President at every turn – you need to stop. It’s embarrassing.That’s a lie and you know it.

Jay Rockefeller was involved in the negotiations and said we was happy with it too, and he’s been one of the most outspoken about the public option.