It’s Not Just the Bill that Will Die

The Franken Amendment will be Joe’s next target so don’t count on that 90%. It’s as good as gone.

@camel54:I HATE THE FRANKEN AMENDMENT!

Adding… I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY HATE IT! I HOPE IT GETS RIPPED TO SHREDS IN CONFERENCE! EFF FRANKEN AND HIS SO-CALLED AMENDMENTS!

Yeah, me too. I was just riffin there for a second, but it sucks. Al Franken! He’s a joke and so are his ideas. Come one.

I’d be very, very surprised if any progressive in either house made a move to kill the bill at this point, the commenters over at DKos notwithstanding.I’ll raise the question that’s been asked a few times here over the past couple of days but never answered: people are acting like this senate bill is the end of the line. What ever happened to the merging of the two in conference? Every analysis of this whole process, that’s made any sense to me, has said “Save your energy until it all gets to conference. That’s when it matters”. My understanding is that the final vote on the conference bill requires only a simple majority – no filibuster nonsense.So – we have no hope of getting things back in at that point?

$1 Trillion to make more americans buy health insurance, private or public. Brilliant! (scam)It simply isn’t fair to label Lieberman a “traitor”. Traitor to who? Last I checked the man had (L) by his name, not (D). He received 77% of Republican voters and only 33% of Dem voters to get elected. The Dems begged him to join their caucus.I am proud of the solid wall the GOP has put up to defend Americans from this garbage bill. If Dems want a good bill, offer up tort reform and get rid of these pre-made deals with the Pharma industry that Obama negotiated. Do those two things and the GOP will be happy to hammer out a decent bill.

tort reform — HA!we have had lots of tort reform in Texashas not lowered any kind of insurancewhat a scam — all it does is prevent consumers from having ANY recourse against fraud and negligenceYou are not listening Jonah. The repubs have said there is NOTHING that can happen that will bring them to the table on health care. They said it — not anyone else. They have made it crystal clear that they would rather let people die than pass any reform no matter what it is. The current goper group in congress are despicable liars who refuse to participate in democracy.

eve,$1 Trillion to make more americans buy health insurance, private or public. Brilliant! (scam)I’m not listening?

Why is it that if this bill dies we have to wait a generation, as someone recently put it? It’s like everyone shrugs and says “We’ll just wait until after the next change of power.”Why can’t they bring up a bill again next year? Or, if a miracle happens and the liberals gain a couple senate seats, after 2010?

-swift, liberal seats won’t be added in 2010. History is against them on that one and when you add to that the number of liberal voters who feel let down whether they should or not since Obama campaigned as a pretty moderate politician. But promises have been broken and it’s hard for people to not feel disillusioned.Anyway, if it fails, they lose political capital and political will. The public will not want to enter the debate again. The opposition will be invigorated and the mainstream media will report the story as Obama’s failure, the democrats’ failure. They’ll talk to republicans and ask questions like, “Now that you’ve beaten the democrats down, how good does that feel to the minority?”A bad loss needs to be hidden away for a long time for the public and politicians who want to be re-elected to be ready to address it again.

@swift – It won’t happen because if it fails, the cause become toxic and on one touches it until they forget about how much of a third rail it is when it fails. Look at the history.The last time this was attempted was in 1993 with Clinton. 16 years ago. Before that? Nixon in 1970s. Medicare was the only major positive step with LBJ. Truman failed in the 40s. So yes, it’ll be another generation before we find someone who is courageous enough to try again.@Jonah – No, you’re not paying attention, or maybe not doing your homework because you’d know that tort reform would most likely decrease health care coverage by a grand total of about 1.5%, which would quickly get swallowed up by the insurance companies with their next rate hike.

Wow, I should proofread.“…the cause becomes toxic and no one touches it until…”

I would like to hear a response to Eric’s question or about anyway forward. Reconciliation? At this point i am in favor of getting Medicare back in and lowering the buy-in age to 27. Then, bring on the filibuster. This, of course, wont happen. They are going to pass some bill that has nothing to do with reform.@ BobI could agree with your thoughts here except for one glaring problem:THE INSURANCE COMPANIES CANNOT BE REGULATED! (Sorry about the shouting but I am about as pissed as I can get).They make enough money to herd the sheeple right off a cliff whenever they need too. Couple this with a bribe-infested Congress.BTW, I think the early “Kill the Bill” shouters just encouraged the hobbit’s handlers and he went even more aggressive (i.e, no Medicare buy-in). He is not running in 2012 so the threats to work against him are of no consequence. He is already a lobbyist for the cartel and will formalize this relationship in 2012.Finally, where did this”Jonah” dick come from?

“it’ll be another generation before we find someone who is courageous enough to try again”for that cradle to grave babysitter?

Heilo? Are you one of these “intellectuals”?Poor thing can’t handle a differing viewpoint?

No Jonah. I am not an intellectual. But your “tort reform” bullshit is straight from the right wing playbook. Broadway Carl has researched the issue and you dutifully talk out of your Republican ass.What is your opinion on tax cuts?

I am very conflicted right now. The other night my Mom asked me what I liked about the bill and I couldn’t really answer her because I didn’t know exactly what was in it because exactly what was in it changes from day to day. Every day something gets picked off. I’m starting to lose hope a little.

Trolls always villify “intellectuals” because they themselves cannot think on their feet, have a bare grasp of the issues they attempt to bluff their way through, and primarily rely on “experts” within the swine media sphere, though never admittedly. They come to all these great conclusions like “Tort reform will solve the health care crisis that doesn’t exist” and “tax cuts will benefit the unemployed.”I’m sure you all read Animal Farm, correct?What am I saying, of course you did, and you know why I’m mentioning it to, correct?I’m not being cryptic, am I?Have those exalting “tort reform” and “tax cuts” EVER walked upright?

Nobody has said Tort reform is the silver bullet, however their are problems there just as there is in health insurance costs, and companies that you know, have a 3% profit margin. Yes Lexicon, we pick on intellectuls cause we’re dumb. Do you pick on dumb people cause you’re intellectuals?

Who’s mentioned Tax cuts? You? Fuck off idiots.

@Jonah:

Do you pick on dumb people cause you’re intellectuals?

Speaking for myself, only those who are willingly dumb, and take pride in it. Looks as if you qualify, douchebag.

Back to Red State Jonah.You can say all the stupid shit you want and no one will call you on it.

So who here mentioned tax cuts ?You all are pathetically mentally ill.To All My Democrat Friends:Please accept, with no obligation, implied or explicit, my best wishesfor an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low-stress,non-addictive, gender-neutral celebration of the winter solsticeholiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of thereligious persuasion of your choice, or secular practices of yourchoice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasion and/ortraditions of others, or their choice not to practice religious orsecular traditions at all. I also wish you a fiscally successful,personally fulfilling and medically uncomplicated recognition of theonset of the generally accepted calendar year 2010, but not withoutdue respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whosecontributions to society have helped make America great. Not to implythat America is necessarily greater than any other country nor theonly America in the Western Hemisphere . Also, this wish is madewithout regard to the race, creed, color, age, physical ability,religious faith or sexual preference of the wishes.To My Republican Friends:Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

The pink elephant in your brain will say “tax cuts” as soon as the conversation turns toward something else besides what you can toss “tort reforms” at?Two can play that game you’re attempting to play, ‘Con-troll.Fuck you, idiot!IOh, and I never called myself an “intellectual,” idiot ‘Con-troll. I gave an observation, and as usual, an idiot ‘Con-troll leapt to a conclusion.Are you calling yourself “dumb,” idiot ‘Con-troll?Understand that I’m calling you an “idiot ‘Con-troll.” If you claim I’m calling you dumb, I’ll merely suggest you find proof to your assertion within one of my comments. When you do not find said word, I’ll demand an apology, ok, idiot ‘Con-troll.Changing the subject with another political screed deviate from the fact that you referred to yourself as “dumb” in your attempt to play victim here, idiot ‘Con-troll. Know that!

Ah, so an idiot ‘Con-troll gets bold, hiding behind the insufferable instance of Traitor Joe’s shenanigans. This idiot ‘Con-troll believes himself brave for stepping into the lion’s den.And he offers holiday greetings to his fellow idiot ‘Con-trolls, as if they’re actually here lurking behind the scenes observing their idiot ‘Con-troll buddy.Tell the rest of the idiot ‘Con-trolls that would ever read that greeting to post a comment that IS NOT a verbatim regurgitating of the brain-farts “Jonah” left here, and I’ll buy each a new car they’ll probably crash on the way home from celebrating New Year’s Eve.

wow “Con-trolls” is that creative think-on-your-feet stuff Lexaburn? I’m really very impressed.

Broadway Carl, thanks for the answer.Although I was hoping it wouldn’t be “Because if it fails, no one will have the courage to try again.”I’ll just insert my personal favorite cause in here: campaign finance reform. I think it’s the underlying flaw. If we separate the politicians from the corporate money, then we’ll see progress. It’s been repeated over and over how the worst obstructions to health care are people taking the most money from private insurance companies.

Oh, the ope that called me “lexicon” as an insult shows up with another paltry retort.You’re “impressed” with “tort reform,” so I’m not counting myself in a high category regarding your opinion, idiot ‘Con-troll.Third time’s a charm, so you may want to consult your “Internet Political Forum Back & Forths” handbook and try once again, idiot ‘Con-troll.You’ve covered both my “intellectualism,” as well as the fact that I’m picking on lower lifeforms, so it’s on to how “liberals” like me (ha!) always stoop to insults when arguing.

Are lower lifeforms not as worthy of consideration in your twisted up mind there mr think-on-your-twinkle-toes liberal barf-bag?

Ah, so it comes…I’m a “liberal” now, and a “twinkly” one, too. As are we allSo, with it now established that you’re a full-on ad hominem regurgitating hack of an idiot ‘Con-troll, let us now establish the fact that “lower lifeforms” are worthy of my consideration, hence my replying to “Jonah.”Your feelings of inadequacy in light of your pursuing the daring act of trolling a forum are none of my concern. I’m just here to mock you in online public.Anything else, idiot ‘Con-troll?

Jonah so conveniently leaves out the subsidies for those who cannot afford private insurance. How republican of him.Also so republican of him to not even try to dispute that I am right about tort reform. Either because he knows I am right or is simply unable to make a reasonable argument. So he changes the subject. Very juvenile mode of discussion.

*Ignores the troll*@ eve and Carl – You’re dead on about tort reform. I seem to remember Carl already doing a THOROUGH rebuttal of that ridiculous argument in another thread (to which I added a couple of my thoughts)….wish I could remember which one.Personally, I would bet every cent I own that if you lined up 1,000 republicans, just about every one of them would say they’re in favor of “tort reform,” but less than half of them would be able to describe or define the word “tort.”

and why are we feeding the troll?