The Big Progressive Disconnect

The “progressive” movement is being hijacked by self-righteous masochistic idealists.

That’s okay. I guess I don’t need health care the rest of my life.

Bob, FDL and Sirota are talking about reconciliation today as if they knew what they were talking about.

“But I just have no flipping clue what she and the kill-billers are thinking anymore.”I don’t know Bob, maybe we’re thinking that working class Americans shouldn’t be saddled with vaporcare that they will be forced to buy with with no meaningful consumer protections what so fark barking ever.You see for many it’s a long and complicated wonkish debate.But for many of us it’s really very simple.No Public Option? No Individual Mandate!

Kill Billers = the psychic hotline. Full of predictions based on emotional hot buttons.It is NOT simple. Trying to narrow the billS down to a bullet point is insulting to the people who will benefit.Why don’t Kill Billers use their time demanding more from the insurance companies instead of Congress and Obama? Where are the anti-insurance company rallies? Why is all the screaming about Congress letting the companies get away with it instead of taking a stand against the companies? Instead the companies are over there in the corner skickering at the Democratic party eating itself and wasting energy rather than fighting them.Jennifer

Why don’t Kill Billers use their time demanding more from the insurance companies instead of Congress and Obama? Where are the anti-insurance company rallies? Why is all the screaming about Congress letting the companies get away with it instead of taking a stand against the companies? Instead the companies are over there in the corner skickering at the Democratic party eating itself and wasting energy rather than fighting them.

Wow. If anything ever successfully summarized the logical vapidity of the current Democratic Victimhood, that was it. “Gosh, why don’t you meanies quit picking on the people you campaigned and voted for and go after the corporations. I mean…they’re always so responsive to public demands!”I give the fuck up. Back to browsing the New Zealand job listings.

Hamsher is an idiot. She and her friends and fans will make it impossible to advance a progressive agenda.This “We have to have EVERYTHING RIGHT NOW” thinking is childish. Adults recognize that we can’t always get everything we want immediately. Adults recognize that often we have to expect delayed gratification for our hard work.The people who really think that democracy works with everyone yelling “My way or the highway” and then throwing tantrums (i.e. voting for a right wingnut) are sadly mistaken.Democracy works with compromise and sometimes with small steps that soon equate to a giant leap.The current administration has had one year to work with a majority Congress. One year. And with a minority that is determined to block legislation. This is a new and huge obstacle. Never before has a President faced a minority party that refuses to cooperate in any way.One year and we have so-called progressives screaming that things are not changing fast enough.This is crazy.Voting in Brown will not get us a public option.Defeating health care, flaws and all, will not get us a public option or better health care reform.If we want better health care reform, we HAVE to pass this bill and then continue on with more bills and more change.If the current legislation is defeated, there will not be another bill. Nada, nothing. For years and years.

Just how has that Supermajority been working out for us, Bob? Sorry, but our supposed “Supermajority” sucks Supera$$. Newsflash – there IS no Supermajority – it’s a myth! Lieberman is a loose cannon and those DINOs showed their true colours during the HCR hold-up.You may not understand what progressives are trying to do, or what motivates us to draw a line in the sand and say “this far and no further”…but please don’t pooh pooh us and treat us as if we are nothing more than left-wing versions of the teabaggers. I’d put our principles up against those nutjobs’ any day!

chauncey, the 60-vote supermajority you’re pooh-poohing will seem more important to you when it’s gone. I guarantee.

How’s that super majority working for us?It got us the stimulus bill which WORKED to keep us from a serious depression.But, according to leftwing crybaby logic like Hamsher’s, we should never have passed that bill because it didn’t perfectly fix the economy. We should have opted for a depression so maybe we would have gotten a better bill in 2010!

@Toriach: I am no longer convinced that the Kill billers care about the American people. They know full well that the bill can be changed – history shows that. Yet they are willing to screw 30 million people because a few million more won’t be included. All this nonsense over a PO that was considered watered down. Makes no sense to me at all.

You know, I’m tired. I know your tired Bob. You can’t argue with a fool. We learned that with the tea party members, but it just hurts to see our own do this. Just goes to show you that you can know anything from a book and still be ignorant as a dog eating bullshit.ClayP,you wanna know why I hate when people say I hate this country. Because no matter how hard it gets, I know in my heart I would never run. Thats what they wanted all of us to do. Run. Right now, thats what some of us are doing, running. When you talk of New Zealand, your running. I bet you,the first thing they would ask you is, “Why did you run? Why did you not fight?” I always fight. I have been at more rallies, held signs for people that progressives like you would kick out because they aren’t liberal enough. At the age of 21, I have been spat on, had stuff thrown at me,called a communist, socialist, nazi nigger. When your in Georgia, you don’t have that option for a better one, you need one. I know what hell is. Right now, the Republicans in the last 7 years set us so far back, we are trying to put the man they kicked out then because they were to impatient for his prescription. Unfortunately in our state,there are more people who think hurting me is much more important than helping themselves.This is why the Republicans have won so much. Divide and conquer is their game, and they have won too damn much. I must fight, even if I’m alone in that army regiment, because I would rather die than let them take me down.Where were these so called progressives when the race started. Why didn’t Jane Hamsher check out her credentials instead of looking between the Attorney Generals legs and assuming she would win easily. Why didn’t these same people actually go up and GOTV instead of letting that lousy 600,000 choose the nominee? There is a lot of blame to go around, but when progressives are lazy enough to let circumstance happen, you don’t get what you want.

Nate Silver over at fivethirtyeight.com has changed his prediction from “toss-up” to “likely Brown win.” Not good.

How does saying we should fight the correct problems constitute victimization AT ALL?! Because I see Democrats wasting time yelling at yellow wallpaper makes ME vapid?? Yelling about politicians is as vapid as one can get.Insurance companies set the premiums, dumb ass. Fighting them makes far more sense than yelling at Congress. But running in circles has done so well by this party according to your creative logic.All the kill biller who think the final bill will be so crappy should just drop their insurance. That would be far from “vapid”.Jennifer

You know, we forget history at our own peril. The Democratic Leadership Council was formed in 1985 by Al Frum after the 1984 devastating loss of former Vice President Walter Mondale to President Reagan. The Blue Dog Congressional Coalition formed in 1995 after the 1994 Midterms. I listen to history, and history tells us that Democratic losses don’t equal leftward shifts.

Hey that’s cool, let them win. I’m starting to care less and less. Bad stuff comes out in elections. I doubt Scott Brown really approves of rapes or whatever they’re saying about him. He’ll be an automatic no vote but maybe that will work out for the best, we can use reconciliation maybe. The people of Massachusetts are usually on the right side of history. Maybe Coakley really wouldn’t make a good senator. Maybe when the seat is up again in 2 years we can run a better candidate and beat Brown.As for being down to 59 seats, we were already at 59 seats. Now it will be 58. We’ll need LIEberman and Snowe to overcome filibusters. Oh well, how will that be any different than what we have now? At least Snowe was in favor of triggers and co-ops, if I remember correctly, neither of which are in the current bill. That supermajority was a farce from the beginning.Maybe between losing those governorships and now this MA seat, dems will get a clue as to where they’ve gone wrong, and get their shit straightened out before November.

GOVCHRIS1988:Ok, let’s fight for what we believe in.Oh, wait, the Corporatist Democrats want to lay down and let the Republicans shit in thier collective mouths instead.Nice thought though.

@idabamaho-See, you just gave up. Primary challenges would some some of that problem. But you just gave up.

@ Matt – well, so far all I’ve seen of the so-called “supermajority” is a propensity on the part of this administration to give away the store in order to kowtow to those who insist they’ll vote with the party if only the “price is right”. Won’t miss what we never had!@eve-the original stimulus bill (which would truly have jump-started the economy) was severely compromised and weakened in order to make it palatable to the DINOs and Rethugs – which is why we need another one – and that will never happen now, we had our one shot. We traded away infrastructure jobs for tax cuts which is now coming home to roost.I won’t even comment on your insulting remark about “crybaby” Hamscher – I had some respect for you once, now..not so much.

I got this comment from someone else, but it encompasses how I feel.@Osceola:This is my essential point. “We” were all waiting for the Obama administration to bring radical change from the previous administration. But, our fault is that we were waiting, NOT in the forefront taking action to support real change. Have you participated in townhall meetings? Have you countered the fantastic PR job the Republicans have designed? Have you countered the teabaggers, who have captured the minds of the media? Have you flooded Republicans Congressional offices with voices against their obstruction? Have you rallied and captured the attention of the media with counter-rallies to the teabaggers?? Have you vocally given support to Democratic representatives? The administration—any administration—is the tool to voice the will of the people. Where has been the Democratic and progressive will? Waiting, waiting, while the opposition has rallied, rallied.Obama is cautious. Cautious and smart. He knows the opposition is organized. Where are his supporters? Where is the million man/woman march for change? Where is the progressive convention for change to stand behind him? Where?

One way to get Snowe and Liebermann on board would be for Obama to sit them down and tell them,”If you think this bill is in danger because of government beauracracy, then I want you two to be in charge of running the government arm of it. That way, you can make sure that what you fear most never happens.”That’s just a little trick I learned from FDR. Simultaneously, by giving his opponents leadership arms in his own government programs, he removed them from office nicely, and campaigned for a more “agreeable” fellow to replace them.