Ground Zero is Enormous!

Florence, despite being a suburb of Cincinnati is major hick-ville.I think the spokeswoman for CAIR nailed it when saying “this wouldnt be happening if it wasnt an election year”Economy? Healthcare? Nope. We have Illegals, Gays, and Muslims to worry about. Very serious.

These ignorant, snuff dippers are the real scourge of this country. Every now and then I come ascross comments on websites from people who are from other countries who marvel at the stupidity of many of the people here in the United States, including many in our government. Needless to say, I totally agree with them.

@joseph5 -Bob pretty much got it right about us Kentuckians. Hell I’m rather liberal and I had a gun rack in my old truck up until about 2 years ago. LOL.

Joseph – I live in Kentucky and Bob is generally correct, especially around Florence.

@J M Ashby – Bob’s right? Does that include you? Who else can you name, or is it just understood that Kentucky is a bastion of backwards rednecks.Sorry but those kinds of generalizations don’t fly. Here Cesca is, pelting all those anti-Islam bigots for their apparent view that Islam is a monolith and all Muslims are not to be trusted, and he throws out a similarly absurd stereotype regarding a whole state of people.Fine, defend it if you want.

Joseph – Who else can I name? Did I mention that I LIVE here. What do you want me to do, talk about the fact that I had an ex-girlfriend whos parents literally had “bring your guns” BBQs? I’ve known plenty of people and had several friends with gunracks in their homes and in their vehicles. Is every last single Kentuckian a gun-totin idiot? Nope of course not, but there sure are a lot of them.You seem to be mistaking snark for serious critisism.Now you’re saying that the Muslim community is doing “better than the rest of america” and is in no way being persecuted. You’re also implying that Islam is inherently evil and that Christianity is the peaceful and non-confrontational religion. More people have been killed in the name of Christ than for any other cause or reason on the planet.As if referring to yahoos in Northern KY as “gun-toting hicks” is even in the same ballpark as you’re implication that Islam is violent and confrontational.There are so many things wrong with what you’re saying I don’t even know where to begin. Hell I dont think I even have the time right now to correct your failures of logic. It would take me atleast an hour.

@J M Ashby – You didn’t read my post.”…is in no way being persecuted”. No, I didn’t say that in no way were they, just that one shouldn’t exaggerate. Yes, there’s some discrimination and some funny looks, but don’t pretend that Muslims are suffering any more that anyone else. It’s not happening.”…You’re also implying that Islam is inherently evil and that Christianity is the peaceful ..” NO, I didn’t imply that. I said that the perception now (look at the polls) of Islam across much of America is negative. I didn’t say Islam was evil or that Christianity is or was peaceful.”…you’re implication that Islam is violent and confrontational”…NO, again, I’m not implying that it is. But for many in America, that seems to be the perception. Got it?”Hell I dont think I even have the time right now to correct your failures of logic.”You can start by not implying I’m implying what I am not actually implying.”Who else can I name? Did I mention that I LIVE here.”Fine. You win on this one. People in Kentucky are basically a bunch of gun tote’n rednecks. Got it.

You do realize that you’re basically saying that Islam has to prove itself because Americans are such raging morons?I mean I agree, but thats what you’re saying. You’re saying that Islam has to prove itself because Americans are ignorant.As you said yourself, Muslims have been in the states for a long time. What changed? Nothing, its just election year and the bigots in sheeps clothing are pulling out all the stops.

@Bob_Cesca – Phew! Thank God!@J M ASHBY – Islam doesn’t have to do anything at all, I don’t suppose. But I think (and it’s already happening) for right or wrong, Islam in America is getting another look. Unfortunately this is so because of a bunch of extremists. The GZMosque thing is trivial. It will blow over after a while when it either gets built and nothing happens or the project is ditched. I’m not sure what people expect. I’m not personally concerned that Islam in America is going to be some future insidious thing. But, Americans are not generally knowledgeable about Islam. That’s not surprising, and it isn’t just because they’re a bunch morons. Before 9/11 it wasn’t on the radar, so to speak. Now it is.What do you know about Islam (I ask rhetorically)? Maybe a lot. Good. I started researching whenever I had a chance several years ago. I was suspicious of it at first, but after a while, I began to see that most American Muslims were Muslim “light.” There are some who are very devout, but for many, being a Muslim is not unlike a Catholic being a Catholic who rarely if ever heads over for confession.There is, however, another subset of Muslims in America who, mostly though not exclusively foreign-born, are not sanguine about our style of Democracy. Perhaps you’ve heard of the Imam up in Michigan, Hassan Qazwini. I bring him up now and then because he runs the Islamic Center of America in Michigan. To my knowledge, he’s a sort of rock star. He’s considered moderate and progressive. Just what we all hope for. He wrote a book American Crescent in which he talks about his life before coming to America and also about how wonderful America is, its freedoms etc. But … but…he qualifies he’s enthusiasm this way…”I relish the personal liberties and freedom of speech America allows,but the freedom to mock religion is one I do not condone.”This guy (if I’m not out of date) is the leader of the highest concentration of Muslims in the US. Unless he’s changed his views, he’d have the 1st Amendment free speech clause altered to include a line prohibiting criticism of religion and “God’s prophets.”Now, I’m not worried this is going to happen any time soon. I’ll give the guy the benefit of the doubt that he’s simply ignorant of the implications of his wish. Do his followers agree with him?Don’t know.The point is, you don’t have to be an American moron to be a little suspicious about a $100,000,000 Islamic “community center.” It is not absurd to ask the questions. It is not absurd to feel dubious about a project like Cordoba House. The suspicions may be misplaced. Fair enough. But you can’t simply dismiss anyone who deigns to ask the question as being some anti-Islamic bigot.Sorry if Muslims find themselves being scrutinized. I feel bad about it. A few rotten apples can wreck it for everyone.@MoeLarryAndJesus – Whatever

geezzzz……for the sake of clarity, i’m totally with laddie, MrBrink, and Ashby.

Yeah well said, Ashby.No one should have to prove their worth or inalienable right or cheat themselves out of one second of precious time by entertaining hysteria and addressing the bigotry of idiot strangers.But no one should accept it as an American principle, or human principle, for themselves or for their children– the indifference or tolerance of people being openly shown their place in society by any one group or another.-But especially by the Authority figures in government with their own cabals and religious loyalties and creeping indiscreet bigotry.How about a 300 million man, woman, and child candlelight vigil in honor of cutting the crap, America?

My, what an emotional bunch we have here (including me at times I guess).@nicole473 – I think you’re right. Mr. Qazwini is a nice guy. I’ve seen him interviewed. He’s wonderful, pleasant, cordial, kind. It wasn’t my point that he was anything but. He does, however, have an interesting view of the 1st Amendment. Would you be surprised if one of his “flock” questioned him on those views? Would you accuse that person of being a tool? People in this forum argue/discuss/debate 1st Amendment rights and how they are applied all the time, but I bring it up about this gentleman, and you ride in, not to defend his position obviously, but his honor or some damn thing. So I guess questioning his position is what, insensitive? Rude? What? You can’t even allow for a little debate of Qazwini’s views on free speech!On the one hand, we all have the right to research/investigate/understand/study the issues of the day and to speak out about them. On the other, when it comes to religion or the views of religious leaders, we’re all supposed wear tape over our mouths? So you agree with Qazwini! Good for you. If, as Peter Beinart seems to think, speaking out against the GZMosque is the same thing as denying someone their right to practice their religion, then admonishing me for questioning the views of Imam Qazwini is nothing less than an attempt to deny me my 1st Amendment speech rights! How dare thee! Am I correct is interpreting your view that questioning Qazwini’s views is the same thing as intolerance?The Oklahoma bombing – good one – I think a lot of people first suspected “Islamic” terrorists. I’ll bet most people did. I’d bet that even you did. Can’t prove it of course, but, in a way, you’ve helped me make my point about perceptions. Perceptions are usually based on something, correct? It’s not just a bunch of people waking up one moring and deciding “Today, I’m going to blame everything on….I know!.. Islamic Terrorists! There’s a basis for it usually, and it isn’t always going to be rational or factual.I agree with MrBrink that turning a blind eye to bigots is wrong. I don’t like what is happening with regards to Islam right now in America. But in a way, I understand it, which is not the same thing as condoning it.Happy SundayPS. Did you see the online USAToday headline?“Lance’s next battle? Public Opinion”Wow, imagine that.

@MoeLarryAndJesus – Yes, my statement that the US is the most tolerant country on the planet was an exaggeration. You are correct. I won’t speculate on where it is on a “tolerance” scale except that, obviously, using a scale of 1 to 10 — 1 being the least tolerant — your number would be smaller than mine. Fine and dandy.I disagree that I’m condoning intolerance. If you don’t get what I’m saying by now, nothing more will change that. Your ad hominem approach won’t change my mind, either.Adios