Is This Really Something We Should Cut?

The answer is “nope.”

WASHINGTON — President Obama announced a two-year pay freeze for civilian federal workers on Monday as he sought to address concerns over sky-high deficit spending and appeal to Republican leaders to find a common approach to restoring the nation’s economic and fiscal health.

“The hard truth is that getting this deficit under control is going to require some broad sacrifice and that sacrifice must be shared by employees of the federal government,” Mr. Obama said at a White House news conference.

The myth is that federal workers are somehow lifeless animatronic replicants who don’t have families or mortgages or, you know, the basic human need to ingest food. And considering how many other insanely wasteful expenditures are ballooning the deficit (looking at you, Pentagon) it seems like we’re punishing the wrong people. By the way, this is lumped on top of the fact that the government has actually been firing workers while adding private sector jobs.

Adding… From the above article:

While a pay freeze will make only a small dent in the federal deficit, it represents a symbolic gesture toward public anger over unemployment, the anemic economic recovery and rising national debt.

So we’re screwing federal workers because some people are pissed off? Good call.

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  • pm00re

    I hate to say it, but the President disappoints me more each day. And I’ve supported him since before he even announced his candidacy.

  • http://www.politicalruminations.com/ Nicole473

    He’s wrong.

  • ryo80

    Until the Right-Wing noise machine loses control of the narrative in the media, we’re going to see punting and concessions like this. The uber-rich execs and speculators need to feel the pain of our loss of jobs and revenue instead of middle-class federal employees. But the media won’t(nor will most Congressional Democrats) suggest otherwise or call it what it is.

  • Jan

    WE ALL MUST SACRIFICE. Especially workers, the elderly, the unions, kids, the unemployed. Especially NOT the banks, the rich, corporations.Yup. I’m sick of this guy. He just wanted to kiss some rethug ass before their big meeting tomorrow. You know the drill by now. Cave in BEFORE even meeting.SICK. OF. IT.

  • Adam Woehler

    I have had a wage freeze in effect since 2008 and it is going to continue through at least 2011. Shouldn’t I just be glad I have a job?

  • http://www.politicalruminations.com/ Nicole473

    I’ve re-thought this.1. It’s a symbolic gesture, and may even end up redacted.2. It’s a pay freeze , NOT a pay CUT .3. While I’m not crazy about the idea, it isn’t the worst thing in the world.4. Imagine being him, and having to find REAL solutions to issues while everyone else is just playing the game, and/or bitching.

  • http://www.politicalruminations.com/ Nicole473

    Adding….how many of you have had your pay frozen for 5 years or more? My X works for a major corp and he’s one of their top senior analysts, yet he hasn’t received a raise in at least 6 years. Company policy. Still, they rake the profits in.Fucking corporations.Two years is not a big deal.

  • NedP

    I love the argument applied to every individual item – as in, well a freeze will barely put a dent in the federal budget.Now there’s a great reason NOT to follow through. By itself “it doesn’t matter.”But while a bee sting can be annoying, a thousand can kill you.Add this appropriate but half-hearted “freeze” in with all the other little cuts that should be made, maybe then it will add up to something Obama can crow about.

  • Irish Girl

    I’m pretty pissed about this actually. It’s a stupid symbolic concession done on the backs of the already embattled and shrinking middle class.And if it’s being done for politic’s sake, then it’s a stupid move there too. Reducing real disposable income before a Presidential election will definitely have a negative impact for the party in charge. Why punish the middle class for the sake of tea partiers? The tea party members will never approve of what Pres. Obama does, regardless of whether its in their interest or not. So why bother to cater to them.Now watch, they’ll extend the Bush Tax Cuts for everyone…cancelling out whatever good might have come of out the freeze and enriching corporations further.PS: Did you all see the post on Digby about how the WH has an internal debate going on about whether unemployment problems were caused by structural or cyclical problems? I mean, c’mon, two years in and you’re STILL having that discussion? No wonder they don’t have a message or a plan!!!! I’m seriously close to giving up on Obama. Why don’t they get it? Why aren’t they listening to the rationalists?

  • http://tarackian.deviantart.com J M Ashby

    I think everyone is overreacting.A pay freeze is a lot better than being fired. If a pay freeze can help avoid more layoffs, then do it.Im sure I could ask every single government employee I know and they would all tell me they would rather keep their current wage than be let go entirely.

  • Irish Girl

    @JM But where was it said that federal employees were in danger of being let go? Other than wingnuts, who has proposed that we shrink the Fed Govt? If their jobs weren’t in jeopardy, then why do the pay freeze at all? And if we’re serious about the deficit then stick to our damn guns and let the Bush Tax cuts expire, cut crap out of the Pentagon budget, etc. Do the things we KNOW works.

  • http://www.politicalruminations.com/ Nicole473

    Obama may be trying to soothe the beast due to gop bills.http://voices.washingtonpost.com/federal-eye/2010/11/gop_wins_could_mean_cuts_in_pa.htmlOr to indicate to voters that he gets it.http://economy.ocregister.com/2010/11/23/voters-favor-10-cut-in-the-federal-payroll/44568/And then there is this from fedmanagers.org.

    FMA’S JESSICA KLEMENT TELLS THE WASHINGTON POST REPUBLICANS WILL CONTINUE TO TARGET FEDS DURING 112th CONGRESS – November 3, 2010What a difference an election day makes.Republican legislation affecting federal employees that went nowhere in an 111th Congress controlled by Democrats will now see the sun in the 112th, with the GOP in control of the House.Bills that would freeze or cut federal pay, fire federal workers who are delinquent taxpayers and limit or reduce the federal workforce soon will get a friendlier hearing.But that doesn’t mean those measures will become law after the new Congress convenes in January. In many cases, they will be blocked by Democrats who will still run the Senate or by President Obama, who isn’t going anywhere – at least for now.Whether the measures become law or not, the tenor of the debate will change.Here are some of the proposals that will have new life in the Republican-led House:l Federal employees would have two weeks off without pay, under a plan by Rep. Mike Coffman (R-Colo.), who says it would save $5.5 billion. Members of Congress also would be called to sacrifice by taking a 10-percent pay cut.l Federal raises and bonuses would be frozen for one year, and the number of employees would be limited, under legislation sponsored by Sens. John McCain (R-Ariz.) and Tom Coburn (R-Okla.).l The growth in the federal workforce would be cut by limiting hires to one for every two retirees, under a measure proposed by Rep. Cynthia M. Lummis (R-Wyo.). Her bill excludes the departments of Defense, Homeland Security and Veterans Affairs, which are among the government’s largest employers.

  • Irish Girl

    @Nicole, so you’re saying this a bone he’s throwing the Rethugs to shut them up? The problem with that approach is that it doesn’t work. Dealing with the current Rethugs is like dealing with a three year old. You draw a line in the sand and they cross it. You can spank them or draw another line. So you draw another line. What do they do? They cross it……there is no end to the concessions that Pres. Obama will have to make this crowd.Not to mention the fact that the message he’s taking from the election isn’t the right one.

  • gescove

    Bad policy and bad politics, IMO. This potentially reduces the earnings of millions of middle class wage earners… you know, the ones who will spend money on things like food, and mortgages, and cars, and so on. So, by executive fiat Pres. Obama is undermining the economic recovery. Nice symbolism! Couple that with the “symbolism” of his willingness to consider extending the Bush tax cuts which will add BILLIONS to the deficit. And the “symbolism” of the Cat Food Commission he convened, readying its recommendations to gut Social Security, veterans benefits, Medicare, but NOT tax cuts. How will ANY of this improve Democratic prospects or help the regular folks that put this man in office? It won’t. And I don’t like it. No sir, not one bit.

  • http://tarackian.deviantart.com J M Ashby

    Irishgirl – Federal jobs ARE at risk. A pay freeze may keep federal programs running without shrinking the workforce.They shouldn’t be at risk, but the reality is that they are. Like it or not(I dont), congress has cost-cutting fever and the only cure is more layoffs. Maybe they will settle for a pay-freeze instead. The president will also probably see a bump up in approval ratings.

  • Irish Girl

    @gescove Thank you for making my points more eloquently than I am capable of (allergies and Benedryl are taking a toll on my mental capacities today)

  • Irish Girl

    @JMAshby I was making an argument about the pay freeze as a political move. If it was to appease tea partiers, it’s a losing proposition. They’ll never be appeased by anything Pres. Obama does. Repubs are already saying it wasn’t enough and they want more.And if it wasn’t a political move, then by all means get serious on deficit cutting. Do it right but not on the backs of the already strapped middle class. There are ton of things that could be done instead. Why can’t the Pres. stand up for the things that work?! Why can’t he hold his ground and fight the good fight?

  • http://extremeliberal.wordpress.com/ Jim in Michigan

    I work at a state university and we have had a pay freeze in effect for the last two years. It has saved many people’s jobs, which I am cool with. State and Federal employees have pretty generous insurance packages and make a decent wage, freezing their pay isn’t going to hurt as much as losing their job or seeing a friend lose their job.ON the idea of symbolism, are progressives going to get their panties in a bunch every time this president does any kind of symbolism? They cry, it’s all symbolism. But of course, remember how he was criticized for not doing enough symboloism during the health care debate or during the oil spill….remember all the whining that he just needs to show us he cares, give us some symbolism. He can’t win, ever. He’s going to be attacked by the GOP no matter what he does and apparently he’s going to be attacked by some on the left, no matter what he does. Fuck em all. Keep doing your job, Mr. President, you’re kicking ass and yes, once in a while you’re going to piss off Bob Cesca too.

  • http://www.politicalruminations.com/ Nicole473

    Ashby:BLOCKQUOTES

    rishgirl – Federal jobs ARE at risk. A pay freeze may keep federal programs running without shrinking the workforce.They shouldn’t be at risk, but the reality is that they are. Like it or not(I dont), congress has cost-cutting fever and the only cure is more layoffs. Maybe they will settle for a pay-freeze instead.

    Precisely what I was getting at with my last post.Irish Girl, holding your ground is all well and good, but in his case, he is going to be dealing with an RW congress come January, and the freeze is like throwing them a bone so they don’t decide to do something more drastic like actually cutting their pay.It is what it is.Hope you feel better, Irish Girl! :)

  • http://www.politicalruminations.com/ Nicole473

    hmmm…..let me try again.Ashby said:

    Irishgirl – Federal jobs ARE at risk. A pay freeze may keep federal programs running without shrinking the workforce.They shouldn’t be at risk, but the reality is that they are. Like it or not(I dont), congress has cost-cutting fever and the only cure is more layoffs. Maybe they will settle for a pay-freeze instead.

    Precisely what I was getting at with my last post.Irish Girl, holding your ground is all well and good, but in his case, he is going to be dealing with an RW congress come January, and the freeze is like throwing them a bone so they don’t decide to do something more drastic like actually cutting their pay.It is what it is.Hope you feel better, Irish Girl! :)

  • http://www.politicalruminations.com/ Nicole473

    sorry, Ashby, I did it again. :(

  • http://tarackian.deviantart.com J M Ashby

    Irishgirl – I get what you’re saying, but I think the President is going to have to work with the hand that is delt to him over the next two years.You will never pass a bill with major cuts to the pentagon with a republican controlled house and only 51 seats in the senate. They might, however, pass a pay-freeze without thinking twice.I know you think theres a “ton” of things that can be done instead, but there really isnt. There are a ton of things that would be better, but not things that would or could be passed in the next congress.You’re looking at gridlock the next 2 years.

  • Irish Girl

    @Nicole I understand your point, I just don’t think the bone will work. The Repubs are like 3 year olds. If you give them one lollipop they will demand a second one, and then another, ad infinitum. If the other side were rational, it would make sense to me.Ultimately, if the fed emps are okay with it, who am I to say differently. I’m just tired of the loons pushing the sane around. Know what I mean?PS: And thanks, the hives are slowly receding

  • Irish Girl

    @JM Ashby Unfortunately for me, I wanted the Pres. to take the Truman “take no prisoners” approach after the midterms. And instead we’re getting the Obama uber-compromiser approach. I would rather see him busting balls and taking names (as Elvis professed a couple of weeks ago), but I guess I have to accept that its not going to happen. And acceptance is half the battle.;-)

  • http://www.politicalruminations.com/ Nicole473

    “I’m just tired of the loons pushing the sane around. Know what I mean?”I hear ya. I am too,

  • brutlyhonest

    Is there any group of workers besides fed employees (including military) that expects yearly raises?

    FFS this should be such a non-issue.

    PS: Rs hate federal civilians cuz (a) many are unionized

  • http://radicalsahm.blogspot.com/ Radical SAHM

    Obama can throw all the bones he wants, the repigs want him dead. Period. I’m with Irish Girl. This is a “symbolic” gesture that is going to hurt a lot of people who seriously can’t take the hit while we ignore the 5000 pound drooling incontinent gorilla in the room; The Pentagon; who, in spite of having their budget doubled since 2001, has produced the smallest and oldest fighting fleet since WWII with enough fucking generals fixin’ to tap that sweet govt. pension to sink anyone of our 11 aircraft carrier groups and populate all of our 650 foreign military bases in unstable areas like Germany. I call BULLSHIT that any of this is necessary AT ALL.

  • http://tarackian.deviantart.com J M Ashby

    “I would rather see him busting balls and taking names”Yes, but what does that mean exactly? I know it sounds flashy, but what does that translate into in terms of actual governance? I’d really like to know, because I see people call for that very often but they dont actually say what they think he should do.

  • Luke B

    Corporate Profits at all time high.. income inequality at all time high… top 1% making more than ever and paying less taxes than ever..Course of action: gut our social safety net with draconian cuts, keep supressing middle class wages, and cut some taxes for the rich.So motherfucking tired of it.

  • eve

    This will help the deficit a little bit — according to the article Bob quotedI don’t think a pay freeze is such a terrible thing.It’s much better than what the private sector does — just lay off a lot of people.My brother was a federal employee. I wish more people in the private sector had the benefits, the pay and the retirement he has.But I also want to see the rich taxed. And I want policies that protect and create good paying jobs. I want policies that put an end to astronomical executive pay and terrible pay and benefits to the rest of the workforce. I want the ridiculously high incomes and out-of-sight benefits TAXED HEAVILY. Both for corporate execs and athletes and celebrities and whoever else.

  • kansasdem

    You can put me solidly in Irish Girl’s camp on this one. Budget wise these “freezes” don’t amount to a pimple on frogs ass! To those at the lower end of the earning scale (janitors, grounds-keepers, etc) this is very painful.I’m dead serious about considering primary challengers to Obama, in fact if Obama runs uncontested I will likely throw a vote to Green or just sit on my ass on election day 2012.Obama sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Go ahead and impeach the dumbass, maybe Biden will do better. If not maybe we’ll see “third-in-line” POTUS Boehner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Maybe it’s time for the bone-headed voters to get the Boehn!And, yes, I both emailed and called the white-house today! I lived through this kind of shit when Bob Kerrey was Governor of Nebraska and Ronnie Raygun was POTUS.I was a mid-level NE government employee and we all suffered greatly! We watched as taxes were increased on the middle class, programs for the poor were slashed dramatically, etc.Fuck ‘em all! I live on Social Security, bring on the cat food!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Fuck Obama!

  • kansasdem

    One more thing. Please shut government down!Including pay to elected officials. Shut it all down! NOW! RIGHT EFFING NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Bleeding Heart Liberal

    This is actually an issue on which most can probably agree, if we take off our party affilitation hats. Most of the country has taken pay cuts, pay freezes, decreases in benefits, no raises for years, or, just lost their jobs completely. While it has not been comfortable, we have no other choice but to “do our part” to help the country out of this mess. Having worked in the same profession for the Feds and in the private sector, I can tell you that most Feds are WELL compensated – not just with pay, but with great benefits (locality pay, commuter allowance, yearly “cost of living” increases, guaranteed raises and step pay scales NOT based upon your work, selection from multiple health plans which are all great, every freakin holiday known to man, great vacation accruence, even bonuses!). You Feds know it too. I would like to see this Pay Freeze go to ALL Feds, from the Top of the Government – all the way to the bottom. Boy, the money it would save.

  • http://www.politicalruminations.com/ Nicole473

    This is actually an issue on which most can probably agree, if we take off our party affilitation hats. Most of the country has taken pay cuts, pay freezes, decreases in benefits, no raises for years, or, just lost their jobs completely.

    Completely agree.

  • http://radicalsahm.blogspot.com/ Radical SAHM

    “Most of the country has taken pay cuts, pay freezes, decreases in benefits, no raises for years, or, just lost their jobs completely.”Yes, but this is happening while the super rich are getting richer and corporations are getting more profitable and the Pentagon has doubled it’s budget. This is the result of POLICY not of dumb fate. Working people and the poor should not be shouldering the burden of elite’s bad behavior. Eventually, the primary interest holders on all these bad debts are going to have to get cleaned out, the only question is whether the poor and middle class get completely wiped out first.

  • Luke B

    Bleeding Heart Liberal:I’m sorry, but I disagree with you whole heartily. So middle and lower class Americans have taken a hit, so Fed employees should get in line and take the hit too? Why, so the gravy train can keep rolling down wall street, and the rich can avoid paying more than dick in taxes? No sir. No sir, no sir. I’m not buying that shit anymore. It’s time that corporate america quit brainwashing us with the idea that unions should compromise her, and gov’t employees should make less.. why? so Corporate america feels better about paying people anemic wages? Bull-fucking-shit. This is not the time for our government to be setting the example that says “hey, let’s pay middle income people less, so we don’t have to significantly raise any taxes on the rich”.Horrible Idea. The only budget fixes that should even be on the table are big tax raises for the rich, defense cuts, eliminating corporate tax loopholes, cutting defense, taxing polluters, and levying huge tariffs on imports and then we can spend some damn money on the people who need it!

  • Luke B

    compromise more *

  • eljefejeff

    as a former government employee of one of the largest cities in the country, I find it entirely fair that as we run out of money, the employees share in the burden. Working for the government is not a privilege, but believe me, a sizable chunk of its employees seem to believe so. I seriously worked in an office in which many employees spent all their time planning the next company party, which were held during work hours, often 5 or 6 hours at a time. Imagine 150 engineers costing approximately $50 an hour to attend a worthless party for 6 hours. According to my math, that’s $45,000 wasted just on personnel, not to mention all the money spent on renting a venue and paying for food. And there were several of these each year. Should taxpayers really foot the bill for that?Department heads take advantage of excess funds to hire employees they know full well they don’t need and won’t have enough work for, and then as budgets are inevitably tightened, near-completed projects already several hundred thousand dollars in the hole are put on the shelf, only to be started over from scratch years later.I find it’s more cost-efficient to outsource much of it to private companies. Then the government awards contracts to the lowest bidder. It saves money, creates jobs, and we still get our public services.

  • http://radicalsahm.blogspot.com/ Radical SAHM

    @Luke BYou’ve got your head on straight : )