I’m going to go to the most obvious, and extreme, instance.

If Diaper Don decided to shoot someone on 5th Avenue (maybe while eating a 5th Avenue? I always did like those candy bars) could he pardon himself for it? I have to think there’s not a court in the land that would say yes. Otherwise the president would be above the law and, hence, a monarch. If it doesn’t apply to that then it wouldn’t, logically- I hope, apply to other crimes he committed on a federal level…y’know, like election fraud and tampering (ref. his call the Georgia gov about overturning the election certification). According to Glenn Kirschner such pardons that cover up a crime you’re related to can be challenged in court. In short, pardons are not absolute and likely can’t be given to yourself.

The fact we even have to theorize about this is a terrible situation.

Now, a pardon is an admission of guilt and Jabba the Trump says he didn’t do anything wrong so doesn’t need to pardon himself. Take that for what it’s worth.

And the pardons wouldn’t say “…and all his/her friends and associates…” would it?
Investigate, investigate, investigate!

The problem with “legal reasoning” is that most laws (all laws?) limit what you can do. When you get down to it, they tend to be “You are not allowed to do this thing.” (killing someone, running a stop sign, refusing to pay taxes) rather than “You are allowed to do this.” statements.

So if there is no law that says “The president can’t pardon themselves.”, lawyers can make a case that the president can do it. The fact that it’s so obviously wrong that nobody should have to write a law saying so is beside the point so far as “the law” would be concerned.

The only reason self-pardoning an open question is that no one before has been brazen enough to try it.

I am not a lawyer and I don’t play one on television, so it seems blindingly obvious to me that an executive cannot pardon himself/herself, at least not in a democracy. We’re up against the potential for some motivated reasoning if the matter comes before the courts, though: legal theory is fine and dandy, but a lot of judges remember who it was that nominated them.

If Donald Trump tries to pardon himself, it will lead to the biggest legal furball imaginable, just one more fire he’s lighting on the way out the door.

–alopecia

“As for Trump pardoning himself, maybe he can and maybe he can’t.”

I don’t know how this would come out legally. “The law is an ass”, of course, and legal reasoning often comes down in favor of things that are just repugnant.

But a President able to pardon themselves is something that is so you-know-in-your-gut wrong in a democracy that it should be one of those things that just never occurs to anyone to suggest. Something so obviously opposed to “everything this country is supposed to be” that nobody would ever expect to have to write it down as a law.

It’s like having to say “No, you’re not allowed to jam knives into a toddler’s eyes. Why would it ever even cross you mind that that was OK?”

My thought exactly.

The common view seems to be that, once a person is pardoned there’s no point investigating since there would be no consequence. Why investigate and prosecute when the outcome is a foregone conclusion of the person walks free?

But there’s more to be gained from an investigation than punishing the wrongdoer. there is still immense value in making it well known exactly what crimes they committed. Sure, they’ll “get away with it” in that you can’t sentence them, but that doesn’t mean they should get away with nobody ever knowing what they did.

• Absolutely horrifying. We’re looking down the barrel of a half-million dead in this country before all’s said and done. Sing it with me now: stay home as much as you can, wash your hands, avoid crowds, socially distance and wear a damn’ mask.

• I’m glad Heidi Stirrup got 86’ed from Justice, but what the hell was she doing there in the first place? Yes, presidents have liaisons in various departments to facilitate communication, but that isn’t what she was up to. Donald Trump already had William Barr, did he really need a commissar as well?

• Sina is 21 and has been posting YouTube videos for seven years (!). According to people who know about such things, she’s a very talented drummer.

Have a safe weekend, all.

–alopecia

Of course his spawn are on the list, along with his failson-in-law and Rudy Giuliani, but who are the other fifteen insiders who (may have) committed federal crimes? The final list should make for interesting reading, especially for state and local prosecutors.

As for Trump pardoning himself, maybe he can and maybe he can’t. If he does try, Trumpian judges who proclaim themselves “originalists” and “textualists” will be in a spot of bother: the Constitution says the president “shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States.” and in common, 18th century usage, “grant” meant to convey something to another. There’s no way to read that passage honestly and conclude the Framers thought self-pardoning was acceptable.

And I wonder if Trump realizes presidential pardons cannot and do not cover violations of state or local criminal (or civil) statutes. I’m fairly certain he doesn’t.

–alopecia

An idiot has spent the last 4 years proving it.

– Literally 9/11 on a daily basis. My God…

– I can hardly wait to hear the caterwauling from the right over the great oppression that the Deep State is getting away with in banning Trump’s plant/mole/saboteur.

Safe weekend everyone.

I’m kind of embarrassed to admit that this picks me up a bit. But this picks me up a bit. We all need that these days.
https://youtu.be/lEMIKBiDHeo